119 Days……

Makes for a good debate though, whilst I don’t see much of his forecast coming true some of his arguments do give me pause for thought.
 
AFCDorset said:
Just what I can see as 'an old person in his crumbling ivory tower'.

If you ever deigned to tell me what you really think then perhaps I could talk to you as a real person. But right now, you spout neo-Marxist/socialist claptrap and get upset that you get taken at your word.

You come across as an old school 'apparachik', not a real person.
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Who’s upset, just asking why the need for labels all the time. According to you, this current Tory mob are Marxist so I don't know how far right wing they need to go to not be labelled as such. However, they then become Fascists, which are the same as Marxists according to you.
 
soupsandwich said:
If yer gonna post wild conspiracy theories, not once but many times, you've picked up from orf the web you're gonna get the piss taken out of you, it's the way it works. Especially when you adopt the lofty position that you know 'whats going on' and others are too stoopid to understand. Jeez
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Morning soups.

Pretty much everything that is wrecking this country, inflation, budget deficits and out of control public spending, energy and fuel prices and lots more has been caused by deliberate government policy. You can see the results of that every time you go to a supermarket or pay an energy bill.

The conspiracy in this case is the idea that that all of these issues are quite deliberate and caused by outside forces pushing the globalist agenda. Our new chancellor, is imposed upon us and immediately reverses a budget that would have been good for the country for one that is good for the markets, ie globalist interests.

As a conspiracy theory, this is anything but 'wild'.
 
This was a point being made on another thread - who the fuck is running the country "the markets" or the elected?
 
AFCDorset said:
Morning soups.

Pretty much everything that is wrecking this country, inflation, budget deficits and out of control public spending, energy and fuel prices and lots more has been caused by deliberate government policy. You can see the results of that every time you go to a supermarket or pay an energy bill.

The conspiracy in this case is the idea that that all of these issues are quite deliberate and caused by outside forces pushing the globalist agenda. Our new chancellor, is imposed upon us and immediately reverses a budget that would have been good for the country for one that is good for the markets, ie globalist interests.

As a conspiracy theory, this is anything but 'wild'.
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That'd be Mr Sandwich to you.

I'd agree that there are outside influences, but not necessarily the one's you put forward. Human society has always been constructed with the same powerful inheriting the power thru the centuries. Old days they'd kick yer ass with catapults and swords to maintain their position. Nowadays they do it thru, mostly, the Tories, republicans etc using Murdoch, Harmsworth, Barclay smoke n mirrors. The only revolution needed is for the Majority to stop believing their BS. But then if they did there'd be violence exerted with 21stC catapults n swords so maybe you're right after all !!

So, I've changed my mind, you CAN call me Soups .................
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Who’s upset, just asking why the need for labels all the time. According to you, this current Tory mob are Marxist so I don't know how far right wing they need to go to not be labelled as such. However, they then become Fascists, which are the same as Marxists according to you.
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Morning Club book.

In some ways I agree with you, labels can be a real pain in the ass, but sometimes we simply have to put a name to the things we are talking about. your post, quoted being a case in point.

Calling the Tory mob marxist is simply based on how they are behaving not what they call themselves. Highest tax rates in history, out of control public spending, open borders, curbs on free speech and jail for people daring to criticise them.

Maybe not 'politically' marxist but arrogant and authoritarian, to the extent that voting or public opinion now makes little difference. In reality Fascism was never really left or right, nationalist yes but a conglomeration of corporate and financial interest and political power. As Mussolini said;

'All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state'. Simplified I know but worth remembering.

Marxist style fascism is exactly the same except that the 'means of production are taken over by the state directly rather than left in private hands who are of course controlled by the state.
 
soupsandwich said:
That'd be Mr Sandwich to you.

I'd agree that there are outside influences, but not necessarily the one's you put forward. Human society has always been constructed with the same powerful inheriting the power thru the centuries. Old days they'd kick yer ass with catapults and swords to maintain their position. Nowadays they do it thru, mostly, the Tories, republicans etc using Murdoch, Harmsworth, Barclay smoke n mirrors. The only revolution needed is for the Majority to stop believing their BS. But then if they did there'd be violence exerted with 21stC catapults n swords so maybe you're right after all !!

So, I've changed my mind, you CAN call me Soups .................
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Sorry Mr Soupandwich, no disrespect intended.

It is difficult, these differences have been with us for years, centuries even, there has always been conflict. Depending on your view, you can consider the great wars of the 20th century to be an attempt to cull the 'masses' of their best and strongest, simply to lessen the threat to the ruling classes.

In the 21st century so far, the masses are being controlled by other means, massive MSM and social media propaganda and heavy, authoritarian reactions to the problems that they have deliberately created. Project fear is, so far working very well, no need for catapults and swords yet. Just look at the quite appalling reactions of the pro-vaxers, wanting those who refuse excluded, locked up or worse.

The important thing to remember is that all the issues currently blighting this country are caused by the same people using different fronts/organisation. Different names yes but all trying to destroy the last vestiges go freedom and democracy, prescious little of either left and have we have seen, with the help of a significant percentage of the population.

Unless these people wake up, it will be be over, gone.
 
Nothing has ever changed.
"The Man" has always been in control.
It's laughable to believe that now is any different to the past.
Only the scenery changes.
 
sixthswan said:
Nothing has ever changed.
"The Man" has always been in control.
It's laughable to believe that now is any different to the past.
Only the scenery changes.
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Hi sixthswan.

You are, as always on this subject pretty much on the money. The difference now is one of scope and scale.

For much of history the control exerted by 'The Man' as you so quaintly put it has has been quite 'light', sure pretty brutal at times but not that out of keeping with the times. The last 70 odd years have seen a lot of ordinary people living their lives in an orderly manner, reasonably safe and affluent and generally untroubled. For some reason the ruling elite are looking to gain total control, maybe they were spooked by the Brexit/Trump pushback maybe by something else.

It is how they are choosing to exercise this control and the sheer bloody success that they are having with it that is currently exercising my mind. The radicalisation of the pro-vax contingent during the heights of covid being a case in point.
 
But you're coming from the perspective of a bloke, lucky to be born in a nation where even poverty can seem like luxury to large parts of the rest of the world. The last 70 years have been far from rosy for most ordinary humans.

The Man has been totally and utterly brutal in many places. More subtle in the "West".

But the ruling elite have always and will always be in control.

Brexit was only the partial cessation of a relationship with other European nations. There have been President's like Trump before.

The elite aren't spooked. They're running the show. They did before your rose-tinted 70 odd years. They did during it. They will continue to do so. Nothing will change.
 
As you know, I'm a pragmatist, I speak about what I see and experience on a personal level. I accept that I was very lucky to have been born in the middle of the 20th century but I also strongly believe that the country I was born into was built primarily be the inhabitants of the British Isles over some 800 years. That we are now breaking up and destroying piece by piece.

Did we get everything right, of course not , but all in all I think we did rather better than ok, and were actually in the process of developing a truly fair and decent society.

By the by, most people I know have a perfectly decent relationship with the countries of Europe, it is just the EU that I and many others, have a problem with.
 
AFCDorset said:
the country I was born into was built primarily be the inhabitants of the British Isles over some 800 years. That we are now breaking up and destroying piece by piece
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You missed out pillaging and plundering other countries to create the wealth and power. People want their country's back and the ability to reap their own resources. The walls are crumbling.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
You missed out pillaging and plundering other countries to create the wealth and power. People want their country's back and the ability to reap their own resources. The walls are crumbling.
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A few thoughts thoughts Club book. Firstly the colonial adventure was only a very small part of that. There were some pretty dreadful episodes in that period, but some genuinely good things too, as Churchill said, they 'do things differently there'.

I still maintain most most of the wealth was generated in this country by hard work and trade, most people did not benefit from colonialism at all. In addition it was not all about wealth and power, developing a culture with a functioning legal system, a parliament, and a culture that encouraged discovery and enterprise is what drove the development of modern Britain

Also we have been stepping back from colonialism for around 100 years, for more than 50 years the people have their countries back. In many cases simply handing them over to the Russians the Chinese and the corporates. Not my country and not my business but that will not be for the wellbeing of the people.
 
Nicely sarky Club book.

Does not add much to the discussion though.

One of the most reviled agents of colonialism, the British East India Company, was instrumental is bringing to an end what is possibly the greatest genocide in recorded history.

Colonial rule and the introduction of basic sanitary and medical care has saved the lives of millions perhaps billions of African lives.
 
I see, not big on balance.

Two further thoughts.

Many of the slaves transported to the new world were procured and trafficked by the King of Dahomy, at the height of the trade he was possibly the richest man in Africa.

During the period of the transatlantic trade, white slavers transported approximately half a million slaves into what was to become the USA. During the same period around 10 to 12 million slaves were trafficked into the Ottoman Empire, no white men involved.
 
AFCDorset said:
I see, not big on balance.

Two further thoughts.

Many of the slaves transported to the new world were procured and trafficked by the King of Dahomy, at the height of the trade he was possibly the richest man in Africa.

During the period of the transatlantic trade, white slavers transported approximately half a million slaves into what was to become the USA. During the same period around 10 to 12 million slaves were trafficked into the Ottoman Empire, no white men involved.
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Oh, so someone else did it on a bigger scale and they were black. Why didn't you point that out before, it makes it all OK.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Oh, so someone else did it on a bigger scale and they were black. Why didn't you point that out before, it makes it all OK.
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Another sarky comment that has no value.

It does nothing of the sort and I never suggested otherwise. The Holomodor and the Armenian genocide both took place in the last century, why are the perpetrators of those horrors not required to apologise and offer reparations?
 
AFCDorset said:
Another sarky comment that has no value.

It does nothing of the sort and I never suggested otherwise. The Holomodor and the Armenian genocide both took place in the last century, why are the perpetrators of those horrors not required to apologise and offer reparations?
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You need to ask whoever brings the apologies and reparations.
 
AFCDorset said:
As you know, I'm a pragmatist, I speak about what I see and experience on a personal level. I accept that I was very lucky to have been born in the middle of the 20th century but I also strongly believe that the country I was born into was built primarily be the inhabitants of the British Isles over some 800 years. That we are now breaking up and destroying piece by piece.

Did we get everything right, of course not , but all in all I think we did rather better than ok, and were actually in the process of developing a truly fair and decent society.

By the by, most people I know have a perfectly decent relationship with the countries of Europe, it is just the EU that I and many others, have a problem with.
Click to expand...

1950s Leicester...

slums2.jpg
 
She was only there that long 'cos the other Liz went to the throne in the sky and pretty much sent parliament off on a 10 day break delaying the carnage.
 
Sir Robert Walpole has the longest single term as a British Prime Minister. 20 years and 315 days from 3rd April 1721 until 11th February 1742!
 
1 Walpole
2 William Pitt the Younger
3 Robert Jenkinson,Earl of Liverpool
4 Robert Cecil,1st Earl of Salisbury
5 William Gladstone
6 Lord North
7 Margaret Thatcher
 
Shortest……
1 Truss
2 George Canning
3 Viscount Goderich
4 Bonar Law
5 Duke of Devonshire
6 Earl of Shelburne
7 Earl of Bute
8 Sir Alec Douglas-Home
9 Lord Grenville
10 Duke of Grafton
 
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