Friends & Family - The Government Gravy Train

Many accounts of companies already manufacturing PPE that offered their services to provide at short notice when the pandemic struck.

In no other situation would anyone offer huge contracts to chum’s companies that had no experience in making this equipment.

But y’know, better to concentrate people’s minds on how footballers celebrate a goal (3-4 weeks ago) & footballers gsving new haircuts (this week).
No doubt Pen4 will be back asking for a link. And before you criticise the source, it's one of many examples so find your own if you want more.
 

What?

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I don't suppose we'll ever really find out what happened. There is so many half truths and political chicanery (from both sides) going on that it is going to be very murky. I do know someone who works in the industry at a senior level and there definitely wasn't any capacity in the existing supply chains but of course that doesn't mean there weren't other suitable manufacturers available who weren't friends with the right people.
 

Mistryman

Regular Poster
I don't suppose we'll ever really find out what happened. There is so many half truths and political chicanery (from both sides) going on that it is going to be very murky. I do know someone who works in the industry at a senior level and there definitely wasn't any capacity in the existing supply chains but of course that doesn't mean there weren't other suitable manufacturers available who weren't friends with the right people.
What do you mean from "both sides"? That's the sort of tripe Trump used to come out with.

No-one would accuse the government of anything if they could show that they had undertaken due diligence with public money, rather than ensuring they lined the pockets of their chums that had little or no experience of making such equipment.
 

What?

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No-one would accuse the government of anything if they could show that they had undertaken due diligence with public money, rather than ensuring they lined the pockets of their chums that had little or no experience of making such equipment.
Mistry, there wasn't time to piss about with due diligence - the government were under extreme pressure to sort out the lack of PPE Can you imagine the outcry if they'd said there would be another months delay whilst we make sure we get value for money?
 

Adumass

Bentleys Roofer
How much PPE did the Chinese bloke deliver and at what cost please?

i have an image of you pen. fat bloke. lying on a sofa. in a vest. demanding his tea is brought to him immediately.

asking questions is to be applauded, but you take it to the limit.
 

Pen4

Regular Poster
i have an image of you pen. fat bloke. lying on a sofa. in a vest. demanding his tea is brought to him immediately.

asking questions is to be applauded, but you take it to the limit.
The limit being asking questions that you and people like you cannot answer. It appears that the 'journalists' cannot come up with answers either- probably because they didn't ask the question in the first place, preferring in stead to churn out more junk.
 

Mistryman

Regular Poster
Mistry, there wasn't time to piss about with due diligence - the government were under extreme pressure to sort out the lack of PPE Can you imagine the outcry if they'd said there would be another months delay whilst we make sure we get value for money?
Under so much pressure that their first thought was "I know, we'll hand the contract over to someone that has never manufactured that product before, & don't have the means to produce it quickly either".

There is not one right-thinking business in the country that would take such a path.

That people exist in this country for their money to be "spaffed" in this manner & that excuse the govt for their actions, is utterly depressing.
 
That people exist in this country for their money to be "spaffed" in this manner & that excuse the govt for their actions, is utterly depressing.
Just see some of them on here for a prime example. They won't hear one word of criticism against this Govt. but show them a picture of some brown people in a dinghy and they're apoplectic.
 

What?

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Under so much pressure that their first thought was "I know, we'll hand the contract over to someone that has never manufactured that product before, & don't have the means to produce it quickly either".
You have no idea what their first thought was, did these people fail to provide?
There is not one right-thinking business in the country that would take such a path.
What a staggeringly arrogant thing to say, the pressure was brought about by the press forming public opinion, options were very limited
That people exist in this country for their money to be "spaffed" in this manner & that excuse the govt for their actions, is utterly depressing.
It is equally depressing that people like you criticize the government because they are Tory not because they are failing
 

What?

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Just see some of them on here for a prime example. They won't hear one word of criticism against this Govt. but show them a picture of some brown people in a dinghy and they're apoplectic.
And you are incapable of doing anything but criticize this government you refuse to see that there might be another side to the debate.

The rest is typically childish narrow minded twaddle that you repeat so frequently
 

Pen4

Regular Poster
There's loads of answers if you can be bothered to look rather than expecting people to do it for you.

Start by looking up sea-lioning.
I am not sea lioning - I have asked for evidence and you have failed to provide any serious response other than links to a site that posts stories that have been poorly researched and written.
 
And you are incapable of doing anything but criticize this government you refuse to see that there might be another side to the debate
I'm open to seeing the other side but, try as I might, I can't see anything this Govt have done that is to be applauded. Maybe letting the NHS handle the vaccine rollout. Seems to have gone well without the need for someone to make millions out of it.
 

SardiniaFox

Top Poster
And you are incapable of doing anything but criticize this government you refuse to see that there might be another side to the debate.

The rest is typically childish narrow minded twaddle that you repeat so frequently
Maybe you could list the things they got right?
 
I am not sea lioning - I have asked for evidence and you have failed to provide any serious response other than links to a site that posts stories that have been poorly researched and written.
You misunderstand the definition then, you constantly asked for evidence or links.

As I said above "And before you criticise the source, it's one of many examples so find your own if you want more."
 

Mistryman

Regular Poster
You have no idea what their first thought was, did these people fail to provide?

What a staggeringly arrogant thing to say, the pressure was brought about by the press forming public opinion, options were very limited

It is equally depressing that people like you criticize the government because they are Tory not because they are failing
That they've repeatedly done the same thing demonstrates it's very well thought out actually - ensuring that if there's any money to be made, best to have it in the pockets of their chums. Opportunism at it's best (worst). That it's so blatant that they're laughing at all of us - that the media or anyone else for that matter aren't holding them to account on it, is utterly baffling.

How can options be limited when there are already existing companies with the logistics in place to undertake the job? An existing company would not offer themselves as an option (as they did), if they didn't feel they were capable of fulfilling it. If you want the right PPE & fast, you don't go to a company that has only just been set up & has no prior experience of making & delivering it. But this govt has.

Yes, quote possibly the chum of the govt might have delivered it eventually but if you thrown enough money at something, I'm sure it can be developed from scratch. But what a waste of money!

I criticise them because they are inept AND they are failing - eff-all to do with them being Tories.

It is possible to be a Tory voter AND criticise them - after all, there's plenty to highlight as a failing.
 

Pen4

Regular Poster
You misunderstand the definition then, you constantly asked for evidence or links.

As I said above "And before you criticise the source, it's one of many examples so find your own if you want more."

If there are so many i struggle to understand why you can't lay your hands on any well researched pieces. Perhaps it's because on re-reading them you see how poorly written tanda fact-free they are?

Let's face it - you post this shit hoping to be over-whelmed with positive comments and you don't being challenged.
 

What?

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It's not about right or wrong it's about understanding the whole scenario. No one would suggest they've done a good job but having got themselves in the shit there wasn't a simple way to get out of it. And despite the fact that you keep repeating it there weren't any companies with the spare capacity to ramp up manufacture of PPE in the timescale required, they had no choice but to take a flyer on these dodgy individuals

CBC you think that the NHS deserve praise for the vaccine roll out (mainly true but the military have made a massive difference) and yet you criticize the government for the lack of PPE when surely that was also the responsibility of the NHS
 

Eggs66

Subscribed
(A minor point in an interesting discussion - we are all Leicester City fans on here....but most of us (Daz a shining exception to the rule) spend rather a large amount of time moaning and complaining about our team...to whit...I think it is possible to be a Tory and concede that this current government is making mistakes or errors of judgement)
 
It's not about right or wrong it's about understanding the whole scenario. No one would suggest they've done a good job but having got themselves in the shit there wasn't a simple way to get out of it. And despite the fact that you keep repeating it there weren't any companies with the spare capacity to ramp up manufacture of PPE in the timescale required, they had no choice but to take a flyer on these dodgy individuals

CBC you think that the NHS deserve praise for the vaccine roll out (mainly true but the military have made a massive difference) and yet you criticize the government for the lack of PPE when surely that was also the responsibility of the NHS
The NHS procurement couldn't cope due to the pandemic, the extra equipment needed and competition with other countries sourcing supply. They (the Govt) created a Parallel Supply Chain, who gave out the cotracts. Not the NHS.
 
Let's face it - you post this shit hoping to be over-whelmed with positive comments and you don't being challenged.
I can lay my hands on plenty of well written sources, I'm just not wasting my time posting links to them all because you can't be bothered reading things that contradict your fixed viewpoint.

You just continually ask for evidence and links because you're trolling, aka sea-lioning.
 

MrTeabreak

Subscribed
It's not about right or wrong it's about understanding the whole scenario. No one would suggest they've done a good job but having got themselves in the shit there wasn't a simple way to get out of it. And despite the fact that you keep repeating it there weren't any companies with the spare capacity to ramp up manufacture of PPE in the timescale required, they had no choice but to take a flyer on these dodgy individuals

CBC you think that the NHS deserve praise for the vaccine roll out (mainly true but the military have made a massive difference) and yet you criticize the government for the lack of PPE when surely that was also the responsibility of the NHS
there were plenty of reports early on of companies who could've switched tooling quickly to produce PPE items, they didn't ask them or tender the work, they asked companies that were mates that had no tooling or expertise and had to develop a process from scratch. Time was wasted, lives were lost. That's not 'both sides' that's crony blood money.
 

What?

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A minor point in an interesting discussion - we are all Leicester City fans on here....but most of us (Daz a shining exception to the rule) spend rather a large amount of time moaning and complaining about our team...to whit...I think it is possible to be a Tory and concede that this current government is making mistakes or errors of judgement)
Any clear thinking individual Tory or otherwise would be forced to concede that they've made a monumental cock up of the whole thing. But the criticism is only valuable if you bear in mind the totally unprecedented circumstances and the rapidly changing scenarios occurring almost daily. The advice they were receiving was and still is varied and trying to decide which expert is correct must be a nightmare. All of this whilst trying to keep the economy going because no matter how harsh it sounds there are 66 million people to consider not just the poor souls directly affected by the virus.

Whether anyone could have done a better job is something we could debate for ever and a day, comparisons with other countries are largely pointless because the methods of recording are all different, population densities are varied, age of population makes a difference and general health before the pandemic is a factor.

So in short criticize the government, bash Boris and despair at Hancock but do it because they're making a fuck up not because you don't like they're politics, this mess is way beyond that.
 

What?

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there were plenty of reports early on of companies who could've switched tooling quickly to produce PPE items, they didn't ask them or tender the work, they asked companies that were mates that had no tooling or expertise and had to develop a process from scratch. Time was wasted, lives were lost. That's not 'both sides' that's crony blood money.
I can report the moon is made out of Red Leicester but it doesn't make it true
 

Adumass

Bentleys Roofer
I can report the moon is made out of Red Leicester but it doesn't make it true

it makes my head hurt why you continually say all this rino? its your money. its money your kids and your grandkids will be paying off for decades. and for what? some shitty PPE that didn't meet the original spec and is now sat rotting in a warehouse.

and yet you are super chilled, just saying "well, you know, things happen. it was a difficult moment". the fact it is still happening TODAY doesn't seem to register. they are still giving contracts, in secret, to people clearly unqualified. 🤯


by the way, you should check out the work of the Good Law Project. the government are currently using yet more of our money hiring expensive lawyers to scare them out of court (to ensure they can't run the risk of losing). all the good law project are doing is trying to understand why the government refuse to follow the law.
 

Pen4

Regular Poster
there were plenty of reports early on of companies who could've switched tooling quickly to produce PPE items, they didn't ask them or tender the work, they asked companies that were mates that had no tooling or expertise and had to develop a process from scratch. Time was wasted, lives were lost. That's not 'both sides' that's crony blood money.
Plenty of reports. Really?
 
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