The TUC and Labour

HughJanus said:
This years budget £21 million an hour. How much is enough?
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I don't know how much is enough, I don't run an NHS trust, but it's clearly not enough at the moment.
AFCDorset said:
The shutdown in particular seems to have convinced an awful lot of people that working, as in actually having a proper job is a mugs game.
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How many is 'an awful lot'? Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

I know "an awful lot" of people who worked harder from home than they did in an office.
 
Largest employer in Europe. 1.3 million people.

Funding on a par with France and Germany.

A myriad of identity politics, part time working, archaic working practices and early retirements.

Thats what happens when there is little competition in the system.
 
Is the funding on a par with France and Germany?
It was under the last Labour government but we’ve had real term cuts since then.

NHS are clearly trying to catch up hence appointments on a Saturday and Sunday, including the day there’s a train strike and no Pen 4 I’m not having an appointment at their home.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
I don't know how much is enough, I don't run an NHS trust, but it's clearly not enough at the moment.

How many is 'an awful lot'? Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

I know "an awful lot" of people who worked harder from home than they did in an office.
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Morning Club Book.

As I said earlier, these are simply my personal experience of the last couple of years. My eyes and ears tell me that the NHS and other public services have deteriorated massively in the last 2-3 years, sure the authorities massive over reaction to covid has been a big factor but that is not all of it.

Whether some people work harder at home than they did in the office, I can not say but as an outsider everything that you need public employees to do takes longer or is not possible at the present time and when you chase something that needs doing you get the usual covid/staff shortages excuses or you are totally ignored.
hackneyfox said:
Is the funding on a par with France and Germany?
It was under the last Labour government but we’ve had real term cuts since then.

NHS are clearly trying to catch up hence appointments on a Saturday and Sunday, including the day there’s a train strike and no Pen 4 I’m not having an appointment at their home.
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Hackney.
Again, not my experience. My GP surgery, supposedly a 6 doctor group practice, is open for fewer hours than before covid with fewer doctors available (sometimes not any) at any given time, very difficult to get to talk to a doctor, let alone get examined by one. Even after you do speak to them there is no follow up or continuity of treatment at all.

I have had need to visit Bournemouth hospital several times this year, often at the weekend dropping off heart monitors or samples for my cardiologist. From Saturday lunchtime onwards the place is deserted, on Sundays outpatients is closed as is imaging and other departments too. Simply closed, lights out, no-one home.
 
AFCDorset said:
Morning Club Book.

As I said earlier, these are simply my personal experience of the last couple of years. My eyes and ears tell me that the NHS and other public services have deteriorated massively in the last 2-3 years, sure the authorities massive over reaction to covid has been a big factor but that is not all of it.

Whether some people work harder at home than they did in the office, I can not say but as an outsider everything that you need public employees to do takes longer or is not possible at the present time and when you chase something that needs doing you get the usual covid/staff shortages excuses or you are totally ignored.

Hackney.
Again, not my experience. My GP surgery, supposedly a 6 doctor group practice, is open for fewer hours than before covid with fewer doctors available (sometimes not any) at any given time, very difficult to get to talk to a doctor, let alone get examined by one. Even after you do speak to them there is no follow up or continuity of treatment at all.

I have had need to visit Bournemouth hospital several times this year, often at the weekend dropping off heart monitors or samples for my cardiologist. From Saturday lunchtime onwards the place is deserted, on Sundays outpatients is closed as is imaging and other departments too. Simply closed, lights out, no-one home.
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Part of the GP issue is that we have fewer GPS, despite another empty promise by our Govt they would be recruiting more.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
The same way it is now. I'm sure there are improvements, efficiencies to be made but privatisation is not the answer.

Yeah, that's worked well for utilities, water and rail. The shareholders always get their nice little dividend
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Whereas in the Public Sector the staff get the dividend. I can see why you choose to work in it.
 
AFCDorset said:
Morning Club Book.

As I said earlier, these are simply my personal experience of the last couple of years. My eyes and ears tell me that the NHS and other public services have deteriorated massively in the last 2-3 years, sure the authorities massive over reaction to covid has been a big factor but that is not all of it.

Whether some people work harder at home than they did in the office, I can not say but as an outsider everything that you need public employees to do takes longer or is not possible at the present time and when you chase something that needs doing you get the usual covid/staff shortages excuses or you are totally ignored.

Hackney.
Again, not my experience. My GP surgery, supposedly a 6 doctor group practice, is open for fewer hours than before covid with fewer doctors available (sometimes not any) at any given time, very difficult to get to talk to a doctor, let alone get examined by one. Even after you do speak to them there is no follow up or continuity of treatment at all.

I have had need to visit Bournemouth hospital several times this year, often at the weekend dropping off heart monitors or samples for my cardiologist. From Saturday lunchtime onwards the place is deserted, on Sundays outpatients is closed as is imaging and other departments too. Simply closed, lights out, no-one home.
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You are wasting your time. Your personal experiences mean nothing to members and followers of the 'World Leading' NHS.
 
Pen4 said:
You are wasting your time. Your personal experiences mean nothing to members and followers of the 'World Leading' NHS.
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S'ok, I don't mind. Sadly I have to spend quite a lot of time dealing with the realities of the NHS. Posting on here really is light relief...:giggle:

Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Part of the GP issue is that we have fewer GPS, despite another empty promise by our Govt they would be recruiting more.
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Actually we should be training more doctors. Many very promising students can not train as doctors because of the relatively limited number of places in medical school.

The number of places is controlled by the profession, not the government.

Perhaps more to the point is that we have many retiring early, working part time or simply taking lots of time off.
 
AFCDorset said:
S'ok, I don't mind. Sadly I have to spend quite a lot of time dealing with the realities of the NHS. Posting on here really is light relief...:giggle:


Actually we should be training more doctors. Many very promising students can not train as doctors because of the relatively limited number of places in medical school.

The number of places is controlled by the profession, not the government.

Perhaps more to the point is that we have many retiring early, working part time or simply taking lots of time off.
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Where do you get this from?
Why would the profession limit numbers when they’re crying out for more personnel.
It’s the government who have failed to expand places in medical schools. My lad is looking to go next year.
 
Pen4 said:
Whereas in the Public Sector the staff get the dividend. I can see why you choose to work in it
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You're just making up random stuff. What dividend? Do you think a salary is a dividend?
AFCDorset said:
Perhaps more to the point is that we have many retiring early, working part time or simply taking lots of time off.
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Yes they are, many due to stress and struggling to cope with the increasing workload, but I guess you won't see it like that from your ivory tower. They don't make 'em like they used to etc...
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
You're just making up random stuff. What dividend? Do you think a salary is a dividend?

Yes they are, many due to stress and struggling to cope with the increasing workload, but I guess you won't see it like that from your ivory tower. They don't make 'em like they used to etc...
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As you may be aware, Mrs AFC is a recently retired nurse, a very highly qualified one at that. She has been very heavily involved with two practices in west London for more than 20 years and is generally very supportive of the NHS. Nothing like her husband, who is of course, in modern parlance, a 'Nazi'.

Back in the early/mid 90s both practices had 6 full time GPs, mostly male (it varied) who could be relied on to put in the hours as needed but over the next 20 or so years the balance changed, more part time, more women and importantly less time available to deal with actual patients and more time needed to deal with 'initiatives' chase meaningless targets and write reports.

It became her view that as bureaucracy increased, patient care declined. in recent years we are told that GPs have an ever increasing workload but actually seeing and dealing with patients does not appear to be part of that.

Since becoming a civilian, an outsider, in 2018 she has become quite appalled with the organisation and lack of care shown by the NHS, her views have change a lot.
 
The NHS is ripe for reform. Nurses deserve and require an inflation busting pay rise.

However the medical profession, clinical staff, above them are heavily unionised and part of the issue.

When you have a system whereby 70% of GP’s work part time and the average medic retires in their mid to late fifties due to their generous pension scheme you will have serious issues.

Very few white collar professionals in very few white collar sectors expect or are able to do that.

That is part of the issue. They should be paid well but be required to work a certain amount throughout their career in order to benefit from the indexed link, mostly tax payer funded pension, that they get which on average is the equivalent of an indexed linked annuity of close to £2.5m.

This is part of the problem when a system does not have competition. There are many decent doctors however, as with all professions, there are those that milk the system. If a set of rigorous rules were put in place the good ones wouldn’t get burnt out covering for those that take the easy route.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
You're just making up random stuff. What dividend? Do you think a salary is a dividend?

Yes they are, many due to stress and struggling to cope with the increasing workload, but I guess you won't see it like that from your ivory tower. They don't make 'em like they used to etc...
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Or it’s because it’s an absurdly attractive retirement package agreement thanks to weak Labour government

The stress argument is wearing very thin, if the buggers aren’t at work how can they be stressed, a sizeable proportion are taking the piss and it’s time for the public to start shouting about it instead of kissing their arses
 
L
AFCDorset said:
S'ok, I don't mind. Sadly I have to spend quite a lot of time dealing with the realities of the NHS. Posting on here really is light relief...:giggle:


Actually we should be training more doctors. Many very promising students can not train as doctors because of the relatively limited number of places in medical school.

The number of places is controlled by the profession, not the government.

Perhaps more to the point is that we have many retiring early, working part time or simply taking lots of time off.
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hackneyfox said:
Lack of care?
That’s the one thing the NHS can’t be accused of.
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hackneyfox said:
Lack of care?
That’s the one thing the NHS can’t be accused of.
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Give me strength

Nurses who can't do a blood test because se they are so busy doing online shopping?

Nurses who are so busy but are not so busy to not stand around talking about an upcoming wedding - and showing photos of the dress?

You need to get out more
 
Pen4 said:
L





Give me strength

Nurses who can't do a blood test because se they are so busy doing online shopping?

Nurses who are so busy but are not so busy to not stand around talking about an upcoming wedding - and showing photos of the dress?

You need to get out more
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Yeah, let's vilify nurses now as well. I'm sure no-one works as hard as you.
 
hackneyfox said:
Lack of care?
That’s the one thing the NHS can’t be accused of.
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I am afraid that is very much the case. Sure, as I have said many times, once you are able to see a front line health professional they are usually very good, for those few minutes that you are with them.

But there is no continuity, no backup, no checks on how you might be doing and, if you are lucky enough to get referred the waiting time can be weeks, or months. Even then, if the results do not show anything obvious, nothing happens even though you are still seriously unwell and feel like shit.

This is not 'anecdotal', this is what I am dealing with right now. Currently I have postural hypotension, ie my blood pressure drops to alarmingly low levels when I am standing up. This leads to unsteadiness, acute fatigue and in the worse cases, collapse, I have explained this to my GP on a number of occasions.

Have they looked into any possible causes for this, suggested any treatment, no they have not. The patten is clear, see a doctor, invariably one that you have not spoken to before and does not have the faintest idea of your history. By the time this is all explained we are out of time, something quite mundane is suggested and instruction given to get back to them if the symptoms persist. This has been going on for some 5 months. If that is 'care' I have lost all understanding of language.
 
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