Hamza

Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Supporting anti-racism and gay rights isn't political.
Click to expand...

Tuz_Not_Tuzz said:
What if the gesture was the nazi salute??? should that be allowed?
They aren't the govt (FIFA's non-interference directive makes sure of that), they make their own rules on what's allowable whether we like it or not.
The fact that they might discipline him for this, and it now looks like the 2034 WC is going to Saudi Arabia, really does show up football's total hypocrisy about political matters not just the FA.
Click to expand...
good job there’s not too many pics of the kop late 70s where a good few gave no thought to throwing a nazi salute in ‘the good ol days’
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
The history is long and complex and both sides continue to disagree, however, a way forward needs to be found, possibly some sort if 2 state solution. Also, what no-one has mentioned so far, is the Iranian input into the conflict.
Click to expand...
The role(s) of the surrounding states add(s) even more complexity!

Iran appears to be behind the weaponisation of Gaza and is fighting for dominance in the area. The Saudis were apparently close to a significant peace deal with Israel - which has now been thwarted by the Hamas attacks, and some people say the impending peace agreement spurned Hamas into action.

Many states support Palestine in public but when it comes to helping people and trying to find peace they're all much less forthcoming. Egypt, for instance, has kept the borders to Gaza closed - they're very much afraid of the hateful Gaza islamists trying to incite hate and unrest in their own country! Fear of islamists/islamisms emanating from the region seems to be a prevailing topic - except in Europe where these fears are IMHO downplayed!

It's difficult to understand fully what exactly is going on though.
 
swabianfox said:
There is a significant difference between Hamas in particular (and, to some extent, other Palestinian organisations) on one hand, and the Israeli state and government on the other hand.

Hamas is an islamistic terror organisation. Its core is antisemitic, they want to destroy Israel, and they are more akin to an islamist death cult (e.g. ISIS/Daesh). They operate through violence, and they cannot be voted out. Fatah and its leader Abbas were elected but had power ripped from them by Hamas, and Abbas has not dared to run another election for fifteen years or so. I don't think "Palestine" has anything resembling a constitution, and the various chartas (PLO, Hamas) also dispute the right of Israel's existence. Hamas is very much corrupt. I'm not sure what would happen if somebody in Gaza demonstrated for peace with Israel!

Israel, on the other hand, is a democratic state, Western style. For all its weaknesses and mistakes, it has mechanisms to correct them. Netanyahu (I don't know too much about him, to be honest) can be voted out. There are courts of law. They have a functioning economy. They have excellent universities. They have a reasonably free press. They allow for and have a peace movement with Palestine. And so on and so on.

If I had to make a choice, there is no question where I wanted to live.

I don't agree to this "both sides" balance argument which is coming across in #22 and #23! The conflict and the systemic positions are, as far as the above positions are concerned, very much imbalanced. Which is another problem in resolving the conflict but which is also the reason I very much side with Israel these days (it hasn't always been like that).
Click to expand...
I don’t think the residents of Gaza have any choice about where to live
 
You're completely correct. It is basically an open-air prison.
Not just because of Israel. Egypt is complicit in the land sea and air restrictions in place.
But we must remember that even the Palestinian's don't agree with each other.
Hamas and Fatah are far enough apart in many respects, that even if the two territories (Gaza and the West Bank) were to be linked to form a State - they would end up killing each other.
 
Unfortunately the people of Gaza are just cannon fodder for Iranian interests ! Israel have no choice other than try to kill of Hamas for good otherwise the killing continues of innocent people on both sides .
I just wish the people in Iran could get rid of the mad mullahs for what they do to their own people.
 
swabianfox said:
Israel, on the other hand, is a democratic state, Western style. For all its weaknesses and mistakes, it has mechanisms to correct them. Netanyahu (I don't know too much about him, to be honest) can be voted out. There are courts of law.
Click to expand...
Huge swathes of the Israeli population have spent the last year doubting this.

For example.
 
Charnyst said:
Unfortunately the people of Gaza are just cannon fodder for Iranian interests ! Israel have no choice other than try to kill of Hamas for good otherwise the killing continues of innocent people on both sides .
I just wish the people in Iran could get rid of the mad mullahs for what they do to their own people.
Click to expand...
Yeah bud, it's all Iran's fault.
Illegal settlers. The wall wrapping around illegal settlers and grabbing more land.
That was all Iran. Nothing to do with anyone else's interests.
 
Adumass said:
Huge swathes of the Israeli population have spent the last year doubting this.

For example.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link.

I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of Israeli politics but I don't think this contradicts what I've written. Netanyahu can still be voted out, and the fact that hundreds of thousands are allowed to demonstrate in Israel do, in fact, support the point I've been trying to make.

I really don't want to know what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Gaza people were to take to the street and demonstrate against the Hamas rulers! What do you think the Hamas "government" would do? Argue their point in a civilised and respectful manner in a Hamas parliament? Or would they rather shoot the protests down, literally?

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my previous posts: there is a fundamental imbalance in terms of what political systems and values are opposed to each other in this conflict! It's now my third post on this subject and I'm slowly running out of ways to put this point across .

(It is a concern if democratically elected leaders are trying to undermine the very system that has brought them into power. Notwithstanding that, it's still a huge difference to the bunch of extremists that "run" Gaza.)
 
Last edited:
swabianfox said:
Thanks for the link.

I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of Israeli politics but I don't think this contradicts what I've written. Netanyahu can still be voted out, and the fact that hundreds of thousands are allowed to demonstrate in Israel do, in fact, support the point I've been trying to make.

I really don't want to know what would happen if hundreds of thousands of Gaza people were to take to the street and demonstrate against the Hamas rulers! What do you think the Hamas "government" would do? Argue their point in a civilised and respectful manner in a Hamas parliament? Or would they rather shoot the protests down, literally?

This is exactly the point I was trying to make in my previous posts: there is a fundamental imbalance in terms of what political systems and values are opposed against each other in this conflict! It's now my third post on this subject and I'm slowly running out of words here.

(It is a concern if democratically elected leaders are trying to undermine the very system that has brought them into power. Notwithstanding that, it's still a huge difference to the bunch of extremists that "run" Gaza.)
Click to expand...
You're making me nostalgic for the Arab Spring. Do you remember that western-phrased, democratic blossoming of hope. What happened in Egypt? Democratically elected party of antidemocrats who followed up on promises and cancelled democracy.
You might think them extreme, but that's what the majority of voters wanted.

Part of the problem with our thinking is that us living in the west seem to believe that what we want, everyone else wants too.

They don't. And we'd be better off leaving countries alone.
 
Iran supports Hamas it arrests and beats up women for not being properly dressed kills gay people great country ! Israel is the only democracy in the whole region Arabs live and work there how many Jews can live in Gaza or Iran none.There’s a massive problem with political Islam and it’s only going to get worse I’m afraid It doesn’t work anywhere in a democracy.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Well bbb. You don't seem to post so often these days so have probably not seen the superior intellect of RD in action. He knows I'm referring to Iran hating Israel and funding Hamas, nothing to do with walls and land. He's just posting his usual childish snark. Either that or he's not as bright as he thinks.
Click to expand...
Blubber! :love::love:
 
Charnyst said:
Iran supports Hamas it arrests and beats up women for not being properly dressed kills gay people great country ! Israel is the only democracy Iran supports Hamas it arrests and beats up women for not being properly dressed kills gay people great country ! Israel is the only democracy in the whole region Arabs live and work there how many Jews can live in Gaza or Iran none.There’s a massive problem with political Islam and it’s only going to get worse I’m afraid It doesn’t work anywhere in a democracy.
Click to expand...
'Iran supports Hamas.'
Yeah, while Israel supports illegal land grab from Palestinians.
Your only democracy in the region gets on with theft.
Can Palestinians easily walk back into that land and set up a new town? Nope, cuz your democracy won't let em. They're displaced.
That ain't gonna help the peace process, is it?

'Iran arrests and beats up women for not being properly dressed kills gay people great country !'
So the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is about women and gay people's rights? You know that it ain't.

'There’s a massive problem with political Islam and it’s only going to get worse'
A problem for who? I wouldn't choose to live and work in an Islamic system, but I also wouldn't tell them how to live.
I wouldn't choose to bring those problems home to where I live either. At the same time, what have the Islamists exerienced from us? War, invasion, air assaults, destruction of their social order. That's us buddy. Your lovable democracies.


If you want to go on hating the Irananian government, why not? I'm no fan either. But I think you're simplifying the Palestinian/Israeli conflict down to it all being about Iran and Hamas. It ain't. It never has been.
 
Do Leeds still have Israeli connections ?
Could be interesting if Hamza starts, or is on the bench ( and warms up on the touch line )
 
RubberDoug said:
you're simplifying the Palestinian/Israeli conflict down to it all being about Iran and Hamas. It ain't. It never has been.
Click to expand...
They're all at it. The western rhetoric is currently about getting that message over. Our American friends are also keen on telling us that there's a new axis of evil. Russia, China and Iran.
 
Sorry Astley, but I just refuse to take sides...
The Israeli government has gone rogue. Hamas are scum. The Iranian government are filth.
So they can all fuck off.
 
Charnyst said:
Iran supports Hamas it arrests and beats up women for not being properly dressed kills gay people great country ! Israel is the only democracy in the whole region Arabs live and work there how many Jews can live in Gaza or Iran none.There’s a massive problem with political Islam and it’s only going to get worse I’m afraid It doesn’t work anywhere in a democracy.
Click to expand...
You’ve missed a big bit in your theory again..
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Well bbb. You don't seem to post so often these days so have probably not seen the superior intellect of RD in action. He knows I'm referring to Iran hating Israel and funding Hamas, nothing to do with walls and land. He's just posting his usual childish snark. Either that or he's not as bright as he thinks.
Click to expand...
You can’t make this mad woke shit up..
 
swabianfox said:
[...] El Ghazi from Mainz 05 got suspended for the same thing (he's back at Mainz 05 now, apparently)!
Click to expand...
By the way, after being reinstated earlier this week and Mainz issuing a statement that El Ghazi had distanced himself from his initial post and regretted the negative impact on the club it had, El Ghazi retracted on that, issued a new lengthy post on instagram that he had nothing to apologise for, had not authorised the club statement and then called in sick immediately.

Mainz practically had no other option but to sack him. Which they did today.

Mainz still have strong links to their partially Jewish past:
Mainz's stadium is named after founding member Eugen Salomon, a Jewish man who was stripped of his club functions by the Nazis in 1933. Salomon died in the Holocaust in 1942.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top