Everton

I can see us starting next season on minus 50 at this rate. Would be an interesting conundrum for the manager if we did. Would he play full strength teams week in, week out knowing that survival was almost impossible or a team full of kids every week?
 
Talksport just saying its a farce there should be a clear set of rules eg points per every £10 million over
Forest lost 65 million and got a 4 point deduction,Everton just got an extra 2 points deducted for a £16 million overspend !😠
Will will get a 10-point deduction for pissing them off !
 
Everton have already confirmed they will appeal.
The PL are going to have a real task, making any deductions stick for us.
The fast-track process begun, when we were no longer a Premier League team.
Yes I know the rules were in place when we were still in that League, but the process wasn't...
 
shropie_blue said:
I can see us starting next season on minus 50 at this rate. Would be an interesting conundrum for the manager if we did. Would he play full strength teams week in, week out knowing that survival was almost impossible or a team full of kids every week?
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We'll probably only have kids in the squad next season anyway
 
TartanFox said:
Luton will get shafted on various appeals by the current deductees.
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That's what makes it a farce. Luton won't know whether to stick or twist.
They'll have a target which they think will be enough for survival, only for the goalposts to be moved depending on appeals.
It's completely unfair on a club that's done nothing wrong.
 
Gnasher65 said:
if those 2 points had been deducted in the same season the breach occurred we would've stayed up on GD.
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Assuming that the PSR calc ends up with us missing the cut by more than c£3m, surely if they had been deducted in the same season the breach occurred we'd have been relegated anyway following our own deduction?
 
buz_not_buzz said:
Assuming that the PSR calc ends up with us missing the cut by more than c£3m, surely if they had been deducted in the same season the breach occurred we'd have been relegated anyway following our own deduction?
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Which is an impossibility given the season has ended before the accounts are published. It is the breach in the prior season not being fast tracked that resulted in our relegation. We may still have got relegated this season but at least we'd be a years PL money better off and a year closer to unwinding the ridiculous contracts, plus would have sold Maddison and others for better money.

The whole thing is a absolute shambles.
 
Nomadic Fox said:
Which is an impossibility given the season has ended before the accounts are published. It is the breach in the prior season not being fast tracked that resulted in our relegation. We may still have got relegated this season but at least we'd be a years PL money better off and a year closer to unwinding the ridiculous contracts, plus would have sold Maddison and others for better money.

The whole thing is a absolute shambles.
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Yes, absolutely, as I think I said before it is the fact that the punishments can never happen when in the season when the transgression occurs that makes it a shambles (I mean, which club is going to cough up to thinking it is going to break the rules when submitting their estimated PSR in the live season!?!). The fact that Everton's previous season one wasn't fast tracked just amplifies the shambles but they were the rules at the time so no reason to fast track it and Everton can benefit from a very weak bottom half of the EPL this season.

In short the authorities and clubs (as they all agreed to it) have complacently put in place the rules in the hope that they would never be tested but it was always going to happen given the lack of taking into account football inflation.

Unless/until they start to separate Sustainability from FFP it will continue to be a shambles whatever they do with it.
 
It’s suddenly dawned on them that if Man City get a pro rata punishment they would end up mid table and lose squillions for not being in the champions closed shop and worse still it might allow another up start team to get their nose in the trough
 
buz_not_buzz said:
Yes, absolutely, as I think I said before it is the fact that the punishments can never happen when in the season when the transgression occurs that makes it a shambles (I mean, which club is going to cough up to thinking it is going to break the rules when submitting their estimated PSR in the live season!?!). The fact that Everton's previous season one wasn't fast tracked just amplifies the shambles but they were the rules at the time so no reason to fast track it and Everton can benefit from a very weak bottom half of the EPL this season.

In short the authorities and clubs (as they all agreed to it) have complacently put in place the rules in the hope that they would never be tested but it was always going to happen given the lack of taking into account football inflation.

Unless/until they start to separate Sustainability from FFP it will continue to be a shambles whatever they do with it.
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correct.

The problem as i see it is thus: A luxury tax will never work fairly as the rich clubs can just afford to keep spending and would essentially be paying the league to game the system and win titles. The punishment for overspending can't be a financial one, but if the points deductions are so delayed they're not fair either, other clubs have already suffered harm for the infraction.

the PL is very rich, but the distribution of the wealth is incredibly unequal and still going in that direction. The wealth gap between top and bottom has doubled since the 90s.

If you leave it to the marketplace, inequality will just get worse,
 
buz_not_buzz said:
Yes, absolutely, as I think I said before it is the fact that the punishments can never happen when in the season when the transgression occurs that makes it a shambles (I mean, which club is going to cough up to thinking it is going to break the rules when submitting their estimated PSR in the live season!?!). The fact that Everton's previous season one wasn't fast tracked just amplifies the shambles but they were the rules at the time so no reason to fast track it and Everton can benefit from a very weak bottom half of the EPL this season.

In short the authorities and clubs (as they all agreed to it) have complacently put in place the rules in the hope that they would never be tested but it was always going to happen given the lack of taking into account football inflation.

Unless/until they start to separate Sustainability from FFP it will continue to be a shambles whatever they do with it.
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When is the PL expecting clubs to provide their financials?
 
Nomadic Fox said:
When is the PL expecting clubs to provide their financials?
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Each year by 31st March clubs are supposed to provide their accounts for the previous financial year and also the one before that (if not previously provided) plus an estimated P&L Account plus Balance Sheet for the current financial year (so this year, actuals for 2021/22 & 2022/23 and an estimate for 2023/24).

If the previous 2 years combined shows a loss then they also have to send in a PSR calculation of adjusted earnings for the 3 seasons.

If the PSR calculation from the above (two actuals, one estimate) shows a loss of whatever size then they have to provide that latest year by December 31st (to enable the fast track of punishing in the following season).
 
buz_not_buzz said:
Each year by 31st March clubs are supposed to provide their accounts for the previous financial year and also the one before that (if not previously provided) plus an estimated P&L Account plus Balance Sheet for the current financial year (so this year, actuals for 2021/22 & 2022/23 and an estimate for 2023/24).

If the previous 2 years combined shows a loss then they also have to send in a PSR calculation of adjusted earnings for the 3 seasons.

If the PSR calculation from the above (two actuals, one estimate) shows a loss of whatever size then they have to provide that latest year by December 31st (to enable the fast track of punishing in the following season).
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Thanks. Means the PL are wanting struggling clubs accounts 2 months earlier than the statutory requirements (unless a PLC) on 31 May year end.

Would also be interesting to see how reliable the estimates prove as well.
 
buz_not_buzz said:
Maybe that was why they waited until April 2nd to give Rodgers the heave-ho!?! No one is going to estimate breaking it surely when you could be done for it and whilst there are still 2-3 months to go.
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Makes the decision to double his money when Arsenal were supposedly sniffing around even worse. There was no way they were after him, his agent pulls a fast one and we are bucked (literally, metaphorically, royally). This illustrates the idiocy of having amateurs running our club. Only a wonder more agents didn’t have our pants down.
 
I have a solution.
Any club breaking the rules should pay every other team in the league the exact amount of money they overspent.
You overspend by 10 mill you pay 19 x 10 to the other teams.
Yes it will be retroactive, and some teams won't be in the league any more but it means you'll be giving your rivals free money to compete against you, much better than a luxury tax going into the PL coffers.
 
2pts has to be good news for us.

Every ruling seems to be getting smaller than the last, establishing a precedent / guideline for our punishment.
 
shropie_blue said:
I can see us starting next season on minus 50 at this rate. Would be an interesting conundrum for the manager if we did. Would he play full strength teams week in, week out knowing that survival was almost impossible or a team full of kids every week?
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We'll get 4-6 points, possibly less.
 
The Premier League didn't care at all about PSR, until football was threatened with independent governance.
Which is why they failed to to change the loss thresholds for over a decade, despite changing economic circumstances.
The current limits are way too low...
As they changed the process as well, with the fast-track punishments - when we were no longer a member of the League...I'm really hoping we hold our ground.
Fuck 'em...
 
sixthswan said:
The Premier League didn't care at all about PSR, until football was threatened with independent governance.
Which is why they failed to to change the loss thresholds for over a decade, despite changing economic circumstances.
The current limits are way too low...
As they changed the process as well, with the fast-track punishments - when we were no longer a member of the League...I'm really hoping we hold our ground.
Fuck 'em...
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Yes but, should the limits be based on inflation, because PL wages and transfer fees have had nothing to do with inflation for years/decades.
if team A wants player A they'll pay what is required, that then inflates the price of the also rans who get higher fees and wages pricing poorer clubs out of good players.
what is a reasonable base and a reasonable year on year increase.
Personally i think a spending and salary cap is the way to go not based on turnover but fixed for all 20 clubs, it works in US sports because for the most part there's nowhere else to go, and to implement it in football you'd have to do it worldwide or the players would just bugger off to the country paying the most. The NFL's current salary cap is $255m per team, no exceptions.
A spending and salary cap would not require retroactive financials if when you sign a player that info is given to the league and tallied up, and all transfers are completed before the season starts. At any point in the season you'll know how much they've spent, how much they've sold and what their current wage bill is. If you're close to the limit then the league can just prevent the transfer in the jan window or from other leagues.
 
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