my beef with FFP/P&S

G

Gnasher65

Registered
Let's take two hypothetical situations.

1 - a PL team breaches spending rules and stays in the division whilst a team that stays within the spending rules gets relegated.
2 - a Championship team breaks spending rules to get promotion, whilst teams that don't break the rules don't get promoted.

By delaying punishment till a future season, even a points deduction means the clubs in question has gained a financial advantage by getting PL money for a season they shouldn't have, and the other clubs have a financial loss through no fault of their own. They can even use that money to better the squad and stop themselves from being relegated.
In other words they got what they wanted in the short term.

I know that it's difficult for large corps to do their financials in a timely manner, but i'd much rather see a season by season limit on losses followed by punishment for that season rather than the 3 year rolling average. i also think a point per million is a simple way of doing things. right now there are appeals and a load of back and forth and some clubs getting special dispensation, a punishment reduction if you cooperate etc, so it looks like the rules are not being applied equally etc.
 
Gnasher65 said:
Let's take two hypothetical situations.

1 - a PL team breaches spending rules and stays in the division whilst a team that stays within the spending rules gets relegated.
2 - a Championship team breaks spending rules to get promotion, whilst teams that don't break the rules don't get promoted.

By delaying punishment till a future season, even a points deduction means the clubs in question has gained a financial advantage by getting PL money for a season they shouldn't have, and the other clubs have a financial loss through no fault of their own. They can even use that money to better the squad and stop themselves from being relegated.
In other words they got what they wanted in the short term.

I know that it's difficult for large corps to do their financials in a timely manner, but i'd much rather see a season by season limit on losses followed by punishment for that season rather than the 3 year rolling average. i also think a point per million is a simple way of doing things. right now there are appeals and a load of back and forth and some clubs getting special dispensation, a punishment reduction if you cooperate etc, so it looks like the rules are not being applied equally etc.
Click to expand...

Or just get rid of a flawed set of rules (y)
 
Gnasher65 said:
Let's take two hypothetical situations.

1 - a PL team breaches spending rules and stays in the division whilst a team that stays within the spending rules gets relegated.
2 - a Championship team breaks spending rules to get promotion, whilst teams that don't break the rules don't get promoted.

By delaying punishment till a future season, even a points deduction means the clubs in question has gained a financial advantage by getting PL money for a season they shouldn't have, and the other clubs have a financial loss through no fault of their own. They can even use that money to better the squad and stop themselves from being relegated.
In other words they got what they wanted in the short term.

I know that it's difficult for large corps to do their financials in a timely manner, but i'd much rather see a season by season limit on losses followed by punishment for that season rather than the 3 year rolling average. i also think a point per million is a simple way of doing things. right now there are appeals and a load of back and forth and some clubs getting special dispensation, a punishment reduction if you cooperate etc, so it looks like the rules are not being applied equally etc.
Click to expand...
There is no way that clubs will have their full-year financial results in time for this to happen. The season ends in early May and the financial year typically ends on 30 June, with the full-year results often not published until six or nine months later. Remember all results have to be audited, which takes time. There is just no way that the results would be available in time for a sanction to be applied for the season in which the breach occurred.

Edited to add: plans to abandon PSR seem to be ongoing:

www.dailymail.co.uk

EXCLUSIVE: Premier League eyeing ABOLISHING points deductions

EXCLUSIVE BY MIKE KEEGAN: Premier League clubs are considering abolishing points deductions and introducing a 'luxury tax', Mail Sport can reveal.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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The fact that they plan to abandon the whole charade, is an admittance that it isn't fit for purpose...which helps our defence...
 
Honestly speaking I hate points deductions full stop. It’s all totally arbitrary, why 3 points? or 5? Why not 20 or 50? They make a mockery of the competition. I think there must be a better way to enforce discipline on the decision makers at clubs .. life time bans for owners / board members etc? Remember we are not talking about ‘crimes, here it is Premier League / EFL rules.
BUT .. if points deductions are going to happen they have to be known and in place at the start of a season. Announcing them in the middle or near the end of a competition is bloody crazy. They mean nothing to some in mid table, or who were relegated already .. but they are utterly crucial to anyone trying to avoid relegation, win something or qualify for something. It is just not a ‘consistent’ sanction. On top of that, if they had understood deductions earlier Everton and Notts Forest would have approached other games differently. Again that makes a mockery of an ‘even’ playing field.
I know many people doubt it already but if the football authorities don’t have a ‘fair’ sporting competition they have literally nothing.
 
Brusselsfox said:
Honestly speaking I hate points deductions full stop. It’s all totally arbitrary, why 3 points? or 5? Why not 20 or 50? They make a mockery of the competition. I think there must be a better way to enforce discipline on the decision makers at clubs .. life time bans for owners / board members etc? Remember we are not talking about ‘crimes, here it is Premier League / EFL rules.
BUT .. if points deductions are going to happen they have to be known and in place at the start of a season. Announcing them in the middle or near the end of a competition is bloody crazy. They mean nothing to some in mid table, or who were relegated already .. but they are utterly crucial to anyone trying to avoid relegation, win something or qualify for something. It is just not a ‘consistent’ sanction. On top of that, if they had understood deductions earlier Everton and Notts Forest would have approached other games differently. Again that makes a mockery of an ‘even’ playing field.
I know many people doubt it already but if the football authorities don’t have a ‘fair’ sporting competition they have literally nothing.
Click to expand...
Why not 20 or 50?
Because that could be enough to stop a BCC making the top six one season.

On top of that, if they had understood deductions earlier Everton and Notts Forest would have approached other games differently.
Teams, including us, almost ceertainly understood the rules, I think that as they hadn't been applied in the past they could continue to 'get away with it'.
 
There is a valid reason for having FFP, the problem is it dovetails nicely into the BCC conspiracy theory so it gets conflated with that.
You can bet chelsea and man city are pushing the removal of it ASAP.
 
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