What's formed your opinion on Covid?

Richardvanles said:
Which is your opinion but the question was how did you form that opinion? From Boris, the msn, nutty, websites, or personal experience?
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From my own common sense Dickie.

During the first wave of infections the hospitals were being overrun and the only thing that brought this down was a total lockdown.

It’s clear as day that if people were allowed to do what the fuck they wanted that infection rates would rise, hospitals would become overcrowded and ultimately the closed signs would go up.

That would cause riots not just a few protestors.
 
DagenhamFox said:
From my own common sense Dickie.

During the first wave of infections the hospitals were being overrun and the only thing that brought this down was a total lockdown.

It’s clear as day that if people were allowed to do what the fuck they wanted that infection rates would rise, hospitals would become overcrowded and ultimately the closed signs would go up.

That would cause riots not just a few protestors.
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Ahh from the media and Boris then. 👍🏻
 
No not from the media or Boris.

Talk to people who worked in hospitals at it’s peak and they were overwhelmed. That is fact.
 
In my experience, BCP (Dorset), Colchester and west London were never close to being overrun, in fact, even in March and April they were pretty quiet. The 'action' was in the care homes, where non resuscitation orders meant that many were simply left to die, hospitals were barely involved most of the time.

Among people of working age with no underlying issues, covid was barely an issue, in public health terms it was an average 'seasonal flu'. The panic and the lockdowns were totally disproportionate, even more so now when few are actually getting ill, and deaths are statistically insignificant.

To discuss illness and death in these terms sounds pretty callous, but public health is about statistics, 10 to 15 thousand people are going to die each month, depending on the time of the year. You can shift the distribution somewhat as was done in March and April with the care home fiasco and you can change the cause of death on the certificate all you want, but the stats tell the story.

In Dorset and BCP, the stats show that the increase in suicides during lockdown is numerically higher than the number of deaths with covid, but much worse is to come with the huge number of people denied medical treatment for illnesses far more dangerous than covid. Covid was never really a serious public health issue, the surge in deaths from cancer, heart disease and the rest may actually become one.
 
I know quite a few who have had it but no-one that’s been hospitalised.

The worst case I know of was in bed for a week and had it quite tough.

However I know more people within the 35-55 age group than other groups who would get it worse.

It isn’t killing many now tho. I figure that a much larger amount of people had it (but didn’t know) in the earlier phase and that the death rate may have been exaggerated by the decision on care homes which may have led to the much higher death rates. Or, it may have morphed into a weaker strain.

These second lockdowns are terrible tho for a wide variety of reasons.

Why can’t they protect the vulnerable by letting them go about their lives at certain times only. In the week, mid morning and mid afternoon when the majority of us are at work. Therefore less chance of getting it but the economy doesn’t crash. They shouldn’t be going into town at weekends. It’s pretty simple. But then the older generation don’t take well to being told what to do and the majority vote, and vote Tory.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Thing is Dickie, why do you look down on what other people say/think because of where they get their information? Who is to say your sources are any more true or accurate?
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I'm not looking down on what people say or think or where they get their information from. My sources are true because it's my experience that shapes what I think regarding Covid. Others may have different experiences. I asked a simple question. Daggers responded with "common sense" and then pretty much came out with the media/ Tory line. I note you didn't ask Daggers why he thinks his view is "common sense" implying that any different view isn't common sense.
 
DagenhamFox said:
No not from the media or Boris.

Talk to people who worked in hospitals at it’s peak and they were overwhelmed. That is fact.
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Err point of order, it's not fact. It's opinion.
These nightingale hospitals that were built. How many patients were hospitalised in these places?
How many were built?
How many were they expected to hold?
Maybe use the bmj as a source for your info.
I await your response.
 
Richardvanles said:
I'm not looking down on what people say or think or where they get their information from. My sources are true because it's my experience that shapes what I think regarding Covid. Others may have different experiences. I asked a simple question. Daggers responded with "common sense" and then pretty much came out with the media/ Tory line. I note you didn't ask Daggers why he thinks his view is "common sense" implying that any different view isn't common sense.
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Daggers isn't the one questioning people's sources. You've done it on other threads. It's not just you, but you give the impression that you think your information trumps everyone else's.
 
Club_B00k_Crutchless said:
Daggers isn't the one questioning people's sources. You've done it on other threads. It's not just you, but you give the impression that you think your information trumps everyone else's.
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Not at all, I want to hear what others say and where they get their info from. Helps me understand how we got to where we are and sometimes informs me or put another perspective on things. But, let's be frank here, if someone's talking utter shite then I'm going to call them out as I'd expect people to do the same to me and to say as FACT that hospitals were overwhelmed is... utter shite.
 
We all have 'experience' of the covid situation, some will be similar, some different, but all will be subject to our interpretation which, even with honesty on all parts, will vary greatly.

The only thing that matters, when taking the country as a whole, is the numbers.

Not the the deliberately faked number of cases, this is meaningless as the test itself is useless for such testing.
Not hospital admission numbers, if you test positive you are a 'covid case' even if you are there for cancer treatment.
Not even deaths, the numbers who die from covid as a primary cause are tiny. With covid maybe, but not of it.

What is important is the overall death rate, whilst slightly elevated for the first few months, mostly due to care home issues in march and april, low death rates through the summer have brought the death rate down to 'normal' levels.

Of course this reduction in deaths could be entirely due to the effectiveness of the lockdown, personally I do not believe that is the case for one instant, but you can make your own mind up on that.
 
Richardvanles said:
Err point of order, it's not fact. It's opinion.
These nightingale hospitals that were built. How many patients were hospitalised in these places?
How many were built?
How many were they expected to hold?
Maybe use the bmj as a source for your info.
I await your response.
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This is getting fucking rediculous. Here is my justification.

I live at number 3 on my road. The chap at number 5 works in a big hospital in North London. Earlier this year they had a couple of beds free on COVID wards at a number of times during the peak of the crisis. That’s what he told me several times. That is fact unless he’s a bullshitting bastard.

The lady at number 6 is a nurse in a hospital near to where I live. Although she didn’t work in a COVID ward she knows people that did. Again they were never totally overrun but they had very little space left at a number of times for more patients.

Had the government not gone into total lockdown both of these hospitals would have been overrun and patients would have been transferred to Nightingale at Excel.

Keep going on that track and Nightingale would become full and then what? Build more Nightingale’s? What about the trained nurses and doctors to staff these?

People will eventually be turned away to die at hone with no care.

Like I said it’s common sense. Clearly something that is lacking in Warwickshire.
 
As I have said before, this is anecdotal evidence that simply may not be correct, not suggesting that what you are saying is not the truth, just that it may not be the whole truth.

The government and it's advisors are very much on the same page as you Dags.

That alone should cause you to think twice!..:cool:
 
I understand that what I see and hear from my neighbours is just a small part of the overall picture across the country. Not everywhere will be the same indeed someone further up this chat said that West London was seemingly not as bad as North or East London.

I do believe that total lockdowns such as the one in Leicester were as much to experiment how successful a full lockdown will be as to bring the rate down.

What I see is some areas that are reported to have high infection rates continue to do so despite the stronger measures being brought in. Liverpool for example has been high for months. Leicester too and oddly Oadby & Wigston.

Does anyone know why things are so high in Oadby & Wigston?
 
Morning Dags.

It is difficult to argue with you because we are coming at this from entirely different directions.

My reading of the situation is that covid is no longer a threat. It is making a few people quite sick and there are the occasional deaths but in public health terms, the numbers are tiny. The government know this so have moved on to using 'cases' as the new metric.

The 'case' numbers are designed to be as high as possible, false positives are not accounted for and the number of 'repetitions' (effectively the sensitivity) performed by the testing is way higher than recommended. In effect, it will show you as a positive if you have had any corona type infection, even a light summer cold, in the last umpteen months.

In one respect, the tests are perfect, the more people that you test, the more 'cases' you find. The number of 'cases' are usually given as a total number, which increases as the number of tests are performed. Self fulfilling prophecy.

I find it hard to discuss these matters in some ways, the statistical approach is dry and callous because some people are actually going to die of covid, that is awful for all concerned and saying that the numbers are tiny is no help if it is your friend or relative that is sick.
 
DagenhamFox said:
This is getting fucking rediculous. Here is my justification.

I live at number 3 on my road. The chap at number 5 works in a big hospital in North London. Earlier this year they had a couple of beds free on COVID wards at a number of times during the peak of the crisis. That’s what he told me several times. That is fact unless he’s a bullshitting bastard.

The lady at number 6 is a nurse in a hospital near to where I live. Although she didn’t work in a COVID ward she knows people that did. Again they were never totally overrun but they had very little space left at a number of times for more patients.

Had the government not gone into total lockdown both of these hospitals would have been overrun and patients would have been transferred to Nightingale at Excel.

Keep going on that track and Nightingale would become full and then what? Build more Nightingale’s? What about the trained nurses and doctors to staff these?

People will eventually be turned away to die at hone with no care.

Like I said it’s common sense. Clearly something that is lacking in Warwickshire
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AFCDorset said:
Morning Dags.

It is difficult to argue with you because we are coming at this from entirely different directions.

My reading of the situation is that covid is no longer a threat. It is making a few people quite sick and there are the occasional deaths but in public health terms, the numbers are tiny. The government know this so have moved on to using 'cases' as the new metric.

The 'case' numbers are designed to be as high as possible, false positives are not accounted for and the number of 'repetitions' (effectively the sensitivity) performed by the testing is way higher than recommended. In effect, it will show you as a positive if you have had any corona type infection, even a light summer cold, in the last umpteen months.

In one respect, the tests are perfect, the more people that you test, the more 'cases' you find. The number of 'cases' are usually given as a total number, which increases as the number of tests are performed. Self fulfilling prophecy.

I find it hard to discuss these matters in some ways, the statistical approach is dry and callous because some people are actually going to die of covid, that is awful for all concerned and saying that the numbers are tiny is no help if it is your friend or relative that is sick.
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The more covid tests carried out the greater number of covid cases you'll find.
The more I.Q tests carried out the greater number of stupid people you'll find 😜
 
DagenhamFox said:
This is getting fucking rediculous. Here is my justification.

I live at number 3 on my road. The chap at number 5 works in a big hospital in North London. Earlier this year they had a couple of beds free on COVID wards at a number of times during the peak of the crisis. That’s what he told me several times. That is fact unless he’s a bullshitting bastard.

The lady at number 6 is a nurse in a hospital near to where I live. Although she didn’t work in a COVID ward she knows people that did. Again they were never totally overrun but they had very little space left at a number of times for more patients.

Had the government not gone into total lockdown both of these hospitals would have been overrun and patients would have been transferred to Nightingale at Excel.

Keep going on that track and Nightingale would become full and then what? Build more Nightingale’s? What about the trained nurses and doctors to staff these?

People will eventually be turned away to die at hone with no care.

Like I said it’s common sense. Clearly something that is lacking in Warwickshire.
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Mad that, l know and have family who work in hospitals and they have told me the opposite.

Anyone remember the photos of the mass graves being dug ? have the filled them in yet as the UK's morality rate hasn't risen, strangely enough ? 1418.
 
Numbers/statistics are weird. Where I live there is an ageing demographic, yet covid deaths are amongst the lowest in the country. I have spent some time in hospitals and doctors surgeries over the last 5 or 6 months, they are empty.

The death rate for the year, from all causes is bang on average. The government is intent on wrecking the country.

Why, to 'Build Back Better'. Whatever that means.
 
Richardvanles said:
Yep let's get back to normal. Anyone vulnerable give them a choice, self isolate to what extent they want, support them financially, give them free iPads or an Xbox or Netflix or whatever it is that floats their boat. Meals on wheels and we just get on with it. Beca whole lot cheaper than this complete car crash
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DagenhamFox said:
I understand that what I see and hear from my neighbours is just a small part of the overall picture across the country. Not everywhere will be the same indeed someone further up this chat said that West London was seemingly not as bad as North or East London.

I do believe that total lockdowns such as the one in Leicester were as much to experiment how successful a full lockdown will be as to bring the rate down.

What I see is some areas that are reported to have high infection rates continue to do so despite the stronger measures being brought in. Liverpool for example has been high for months. Leicester too and oddly Oadby & Wigston.

Does anyone know why things are so high in Oadby & Wigston?
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Presumingly on my understanding because they weren't in the 1st Lockdown as they were concentrating on a citywide postcode and those boroughs were classed as non city
What I can't get my head around is when we went into a nationwide Lockdown mainly because of high cases in London Areas now badly infected ie NW England and the North were relatively low
I can't accept that London is any better now compared to the other major cities They seem to be more affected now than in the first wave
Perhaps it's just down to government funding maybe its that simple
The great North South divide will always be there
After all business lunches of potentially 30 people are allowed but if you want to eat in or out with your gran and you can't
I smell bullshit
 
ACS said:
Presumingly on my understanding because they weren't in the 1st Lockdown as they were concentrating on a citywide postcode and those boroughs were classed as non city
What I can't get my head around is when we went into a nationwide Lockdown mainly because of high cases in London Areas now badly infected ie NW England and the North were relatively low
I can't accept that London is any better now compared to the other major cities They seem to be more affected now than in the first wave
Perhaps it's just down to government funding maybe its that simple
The great North South divide will always be there
After all business lunches of potentially 30 people are allowed but if you want to eat in or out with your gran and you can't
I smell bullshit
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Making the arguments above suggests that you think Covid is a real health issue. It isn't.

I've made this point dozens of times, people die every day, most of them of what used to be called 'old age'. Putting 'Covid' on their death certificate simply replaces 'influenza', 'bronchitis' or that old favourite, 'heart failure'.

It is project fear and it is working fine!
 
AFCDorset said:
Making the arguments above suggests that you think Covid is a real health issue. It isn't.

I've made this point dozens of times, people die every day, most of them of what used to be called 'old age'. Putting 'Covid' on their death certificate simply replaces 'influenza', 'bronchitis' or that old favourite, 'heart failure'.

It is project fear and it is working fine!
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It is a health issue to the old and very vulnerable in that it does kill them earlier than perhaps they would do anyway
I get your point that people die every day but the handling of this pandemic has been all wrong since the beginning
If we had isolated the ill and vulnerable and not kicked them out of hospitals to die in care homes and properly funded the NHS in the first place
They would and could have coped
Life should have been left tob Get On with proper testing and isolating taking place from the start
 
ACS said:
It is a health issue to the old and very vulnerable in that it does kill them earlier than perhaps they would do anyway
I get your point that people die every day but the handling of this pandemic has been all wrong since the beginning
If we had isolated the ill and vulnerable and not kicked them out of hospitals to die in care homes and properly funded the NHS in the first place
They would and could have coped
Life should have been left tob Get On with proper testing and isolating taking place from the start
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But so does Influenza and a dozen or more other illnesses that are mostly trivial to healthy, working age people.

This is important, these days people have to die of 'something', this year covid finds it's way onto thousands of death certificates, but hardly anyone has died of influenza, The number of deaths overall is normal. The pandemic has been manufacture, it's easy, just change the words on the certificates.

Sending untested and clearly symptomatic elderly patients back to the care homes was, to my mind, criminal. The suggestion that PHE/NHS are considering doing it again to 'combat' the non existent 'second' wave should see some people locked up for a very long time.

NHS funding is fine, it is how they choose to spend it that is the problem.
 
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