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Foxgolfer

Season Ticket Holder
The 350m per week for the NHS Brexit was going to fund ?
Apparently they’re going to raise your taxes instead
Who’d have guessed ?
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
The 350m per week for the NHS Brexit was going to fund ?
Apparently they’re going to raise your taxes instead
Who’d have guessed ?
We are still paying it to the EU. Do keep up.

The raised taxes are to pay for the 'lockdown' nonsense and the destruction of the economy that you support.
 

Foxgolfer

Season Ticket Holder
Funny that Johnson favours increasing National Insurance to ensure it’s the young and poorest working folks who will feel it most .
Must protect the inheritance of the wealthiest 10% .
It’s called “levelling up” apparently.
 

perdix

Season Ticket Holder
The 350m per week for the NHS Brexit was going to fund ?
Apparently they’re going to raise your taxes instead
Who’d have guessed ?
Hasn't the government spent billions helping us all get through Covid?
In our household if say the boiler breaks down we have to make sacrifices elsewhere
 

Foxgolfer

Season Ticket Holder
Hasn't the government spent billions helping us all get through Covid?
In our household if say the boiler breaks down we have to make sacrifices elsewhere
So a 25 year old in a rented property on 20k a year pays 150 quid a extra year on NI . A 66 year with a 50k pension living in a million pound house mortgage paid off pays ……nowt .
Levelling up ?
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
So a 25 year old in a rented property on 20k a year pays 150 quid a extra year on NI . A 66 year with a 50k pension living in a million pound house mortgage paid off pays ……nowt .
Levelling up ?
The politics of envy.

We are very much in that bracket, not as wealthy as your example, but otherwise ok.

We got to this position by working hard for 40 years, paying our taxes and not relying on government handouts. In the last 10 years or so we have been required to pay huge sums (well into 6 figures) in social care.

Like many, we struggled to pay our mortgage with double digit interest, working ridiculous hours to do so but we made the best of it, had a decent life by and large and did not piss our hard earned cash up the wall.

Like most people at the age of 20, I was low waged and living in rented accommodation, that is how it works, it gives you the motivation to do better and improve your life. No one subsidised me, I worked hard, put my home on the line to finance my business, not once but twice, and was pretty close to bankruptcy on one occasion, but turned it around.

You want me to feel guilty, jog on!
 

Foxgolfer

Season Ticket Holder
Hasn't the government spent billions helping us all get through Covid?
In our household if say the boiler breaks down we have to make sacrifices elsewhere
Maybe the £360000000000b spaffed on test and trace which didn’t work, hundreds of millions handed out to their mates for ppe which didn’t exist and a hundred grand on gold wallpaper might have helped ?

Defend Johnson all you like but the majority see him for what he is

A fat, lying
, useless, self serving, lazy
, corrupt, sack of excrement surrounding himself with equally incompetent yes men and women dragging our country down .

I speak not as some rabid left winger - I would have voted for Tom Tuganhat or Rory Stewart ahead of Corbyn in a heart beat / but as a patriotic Brit ashamed my country elected this shower of charlatans.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Back on topic Fg, do you have any suggestions as to what we should spend the £350m per week on once we stop giving it to the EU?

You have time to work that out, we shall be paying for a fair few years yet.
 

Foxgolfer

Season Ticket Holder
Towards The 40 - 80 billion p.a. (depending on which forecast you go by) loss to our GDP caused by our exit from the CU snd SM ?
 

Club_B00k_Crutchless

Season Ticket Holder
The politics of envy.

We are very much in that bracket, not as wealthy as your example, but otherwise ok.

We got to this position by working hard for 40 years, paying our taxes and not relying on government handouts. In the last 10 years or so we have been required to pay huge sums (well into 6 figures) in social care.

Like many, we struggled to pay our mortgage with double digit interest, working ridiculous hours to do so but we made the best of it, had a decent life by and large and did not piss our hard earned cash up the wall.

Like most people at the age of 20, I was low waged and living in rented accommodation, that is how it works, it gives you the motivation to do better and improve your life. No one subsidised me, I worked hard, put my home on the line to finance my business, not once but twice, and was pretty close to bankruptcy on one occasion, but turned it around.

You want me to feel guilty, jog on!
Oh, Mr I'm alright Jack in my ivory tower. This comment was reported in The Times from a member of the cabinet. Probably a Marxist:
E-gRTmFXoAEbkzA.png
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
I have never been against levelling up. In fact I think it is/should be one of the primary functions of government.

What I am totally against is levelling down, which is what socialism, in all it's forms is designed to do.

I am a capitalist at the absolute fundamental level. I believe that the fruits of my labours should belong to me, simple as that.

I should be able to use that money as I see fit and leave it to my family to improve their lives. I consider that a basic right.
 

Club_B00k_Crutchless

Season Ticket Holder
I have never been against levelling up. In fact I think it is/should be one of the primary functions of government.

What I am totally against is levelling down, which is what socialism, in all it's forms is designed to do.

I am a capitalist at the absolute fundamental level. I believe that the fruits of my labours should belong to me, simple as that.

I should be able to use that money as I see fit and leave it to my family to improve their lives. I consider that a basic right.
How is it levelling down if you're just asking those that can afford it to contribute more?
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
I have never been against levelling up. In fact I think it is/should be one of the primary functions of government.

What I am totally against is levelling down, which is what socialism, in all it's forms is designed to do.

I am a capitalist at the absolute fundamental level. I believe that the fruits of my labours should belong to me, simple as that.

I should be able to use that money as I see fit and leave it to my family to improve their lives. I consider that a basic right.

If you are a capitalist at the absolute fundamental level, then you will be fully aware that other capitalists will want the fruits of your labours.

Part of their agenda, will be that those capitalists will do all they can to take a share of what you plan to bequeath.

It's not just the socialists that are after that wedge.

Are you sure you are a capitalist?
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
How is it levelling down if you're just asking those that can afford it to contribute more?
Morning club-book.

Contribute more to what, this is never explained. There have been times when I have contributed huge amounts in taxation and have done so without serious complaint. What capital I now have has been saved and conserved and is now available to me now that I need it, in fact if there is any injustice in my situation it is that I have had to pay thousands of pounds for medical treatments that I have been paying for on a regular basis for the best part of 50 years.

Perhaps you and others who are fit and well should 'contribute more' to my medical needs?
If you are a capitalist at the absolute fundamental level, then you will be fully aware that other capitalists will want the fruits of your labours.

Part of their agenda, will be that those capitalists will do all they can to take a share of what you plan to bequeath.

It's not just the socialists that are after that wedge.

Are you sure you are a capitalist?
Morning Ss.

Of course they do, we live in a society that is regulated by law so any any attempts made to separate me from my capital should be 'legal'.

Every day I get email from BT, Sky and others attempting to get their hands on my capital by selling me something or some service. I don't want it so I do not buy it, unless it is being done at gunpoint (figuratively speaking) I am fine dealing with that.
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
Care home costs and social care (you may be already sorted with this, if you planned ahead), are good examples of The Man trying to help you to lighten the load of your nest egg.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Care home costs and social care (you may be already sorted with this, if you planned ahead), are good examples of The Man trying to help you to lighten the load of your nest egg.
You have to be joking, I mean seriously...

In the last 10 years or so Mrs AFC and I have been paying social care fees for her mother. I gave up calculating the cost 3 or 4 years ago with the costs already in excess of £180,000, mostly from Mrs AFC's 'inheritance' (the family home).

Strangely I have not been offered help from anyone prepared to 'contribute more'.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
So there is capitalism for ya...
If it were I would have no complaints.

But it isn't, it is rubbish socialism where those who didn't work or pissed away what money they did make get free care whereas those who worked hard for themselves and their family and have a bit of capital put by have to 'self fund'.

The failure is in socialism, not capitalism.
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
Under socialism, you wouldn't have to pay for the care. It is capitalism that is responsible. Some capitalist fucker decided that social care should be funded by those in need of it. Contracted out to private companies. Same with the care homes and their scandalous fees.

Now the capitalists want everyone (regardless of ability to pay), to fund social care through NI increases.

Scotland has a fairer system.

Have you ever investigated CHC. I got that for my mum.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Under socialism, you wouldn't have to pay for the care. It is capitalism that is responsible. Some capitalist fucker decided that social care should be funded by those in need of it. Contracted out to private companies. Same with the care homes and their scandalous fees.

Now the capitalists want everyone (regardless of ability to pay), to fund social care through NI increases.

Scotland has a fairer system.

Have you ever investigated CHC. I got that for my mum.
The system is as it is, no use wishing it was different.

It protects and cares for those who have not bothered to look after themselves. In many cases they will have paid little into the pot whereas those who have paid all their lives get nothing. That is vindictive socialism.

Penalise those who pay their taxes and try and improve themselves.
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
It has nothing to do with socialism. Scottish free social care is a "socialist" example.

The current system can be exploited by those who are very wealthy and also by those who merely know what they are doing.

Get your affairs in order in advance and nobody can touch your cash.

Otherwise, the money men are after your hard-earned.

The current Tories are after your cash through a stealth tax...even if you have made arrangements. Or even if you are poor.

Social care should be free for everyone.
 

Club_B00k_Crutchless

Season Ticket Holder
Strangely I have not been offered help from anyone prepared to 'contribute more'.
Do you expect them to put their hands in their pockets for you?

It protects and cares for those who have not bothered to look after themselves. In many cases they will have paid little into the pot whereas those who have paid all their lives get nothing. That is vindictive socialism.
yeah, let's says it's a failure of socialism again. How do you know they haven't bothered to look after themselves? You just tar everyone with the same brush.

If someone earns £100k per year, taxing them at 30% is easier for them to afford than someone earning £20k paying 20%. Quite simple really, but it requires a little bit of selflessness and being prepared to share with other people. Some don't seem able to do that.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
It has nothing to do with socialism. Scottish free social care is a "socialist" example.

The current system can be exploited by those who are very wealthy and also by those who merely know what they are doing.

Get your affairs in order in advance and nobody can touch your cash.

Otherwise, the money men are after your hard-earned.

The current Tories are after your cash through a stealth tax...even if you have made arrangements. Or even if you are poor.

Social care should be free for everyone.
Social care is not 'free'. Only a socialist would say that.

In the case of social care you need to be thinking at least 7 years in advance, not always that easy.

We were in fairly good shape but family issues caused considerable upheaval and cost us dear. That was our cock up and I accept that.

That has nothing to do with a system that favours some people over others, effectively penalising the more productive over the less productive.

Do you expect them to put their hands in their pockets for you?


yeah, let's says it's a failure of socialism again. How do you know they haven't bothered to look after themselves? You just tar everyone with the same brush.

If someone earns £100k per year, taxing them at 30% is easier for them to afford than someone earning £20k paying 20%. Quite simple really, but it requires a little bit of selflessness and being prepared to share with other people. Some don't seem able to do that.
Why not, you expect me to put my hand in my pocket for others?

The progressive tax system in this country is a real mess, that is another subject though.
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
Social care is not 'free'. Only a socialist would say that.

In the case of social care you need to be thinking at least 7 years in advance, not always that easy.

We were in fairly good shape but family issues caused considerable upheaval and cost us dear. That was our cock up and I accept that.

That has nothing to do with a system that favours some people over others, effectively penalising the more productive over the less productive.

Social care should be free though.
So that hard-working people who have saved, can pass their wealth on to others; if they wish to do so.
Our country can afford this.
The government just choose not to do it.

Wealthier people are not necessarily more productive. That's bollocks...
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Social care should be free though.
So that hard-working people who have saved, can pass their wealth on to others; if they wish to do so.
Our country can afford this.
The government just choose not to do it.

Wealthier people are not necessarily more productive. That's bollocks...
It is never free Ss, someone who works for a living pays for it through their taxes. You need to remember that.

That we can afford fully funded social care is fair comment, never suggested otherwise. It is the way that it is currently rationed that I have a problem with.

We are not talking about 'wealthy' people, they have different lives, I'm talking about ordinary people who have worked hard and managed their lives in a sensible manner being penalised.
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
I said our country can afford it. Which is obviously through taxation...

Free for everyone...meaning you don't have to pay any extra, or top-up payments, or pay more tax...
 

SardiniaFox

Season Ticket Holder
Seems to me the young will have to pay for the old.

And when it turns out it still isn't enough they will be asked to pay more when it is reformed again.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
I said our country can afford it. Which is obviously through taxation...

Free for everyone...meaning you don't have to pay any extra, or top-up payments, or pay more tax...
Like I said Ss, we can afford it, but that is not my issue. It is the current rationing system that I have the issue with.
 

Club_B00k_Crutchless

Season Ticket Holder
We are not talking about 'wealthy' people, they have different lives, I'm talking about ordinary people who have worked hard and managed their lives in a sensible manner being penalised.
Sometimes 'ordinary' people need help. That's why everyone should contribute on a sliding scale depending on how much they earn.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Sometimes 'ordinary' people need help. That's why everyone should contribute on a sliding scale depending on how much they earn.
No. Perhaps they should contribute on a sliding scale depending on how much they spend.

Why should I have to spend money that I have saved for my future on people who have pissed away their own future?

More classic socialism, levelling down and reinforcing failure.

Progressive income tax is pernicious and always has been.

Personal allowance, flat percentage rate, everyone pays, that simple.
 
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