Two Tier Justice - Part 678

It's pointless debating. Mostly, we are just determined to never see things.

I see the usual people edging towards the authoritative line: you don't like the current conflict, so the solution is silencing people. Great, but I'd say that's part of the reason why we've got here.

Here's a simple suggestion for people who love the democratic voice of the people.

Why not have a referendum on this...
'Do you want uncontrolled immigration?' Yes or no?

The answer might make this debate unnecessary.
What an excellent idea!
 
It's only become uncontrolled because the Tories removed all the sensible means of controlling it, in an effort to weaponize & divide people on the issue.

Seems to have worked.
 
It's only become uncontrolled because the Tories removed all the sensible means of controlling it, in an effort to weaponize & divide people on the issue.

Seems to have worked.
Of course, of course.

So what do you think? A simple referendum. Wouldn't this be preferable to all of this divide and conflict?
 
Go for it. And suffer the consequences of banning legal migration.
You seem to be confused.
I'm not pushing for one thing or the other.
I don't have that power to 'go for it' either.

I'm just asking a simple question to people on here, who I believe, like me, have the same principles:
we prefer the democratic voice of the people to be the driving force behind national decisions.

Are you suggesting that you don't like the idea?
 
So only "people like you" can reply?

Simple yes/no referenda have a nasty habit of opening bigger cans of worms. Brexit hasn't made anyone happy, because it was either too hard or not hard enough (or somewhere in between) despite being the will of the people.
 
So only "people like you" can reply?

Simple yes/no referenda have a nasty habit of opening bigger cans of worms. Brexit hasn't made anyone happy, because it was either too hard or not hard enough (or somewhere in between) despite being the will of the people.
Was it a question about happiness? This is a question about who gets to decide who enters your olive grove. You or someone/something else.
 
Who suggested banning legal migration?
It's the strangest thing. You can have immigration rules around the world for most of your life. No problem. But these days, mention of it leads to hysterical messages on a football message board. 👍
 
So only "people like you" can reply?

Simple yes/no referenda have a nasty habit of opening bigger cans of worms. Brexit hasn't made anyone happy, because it was either too hard or not hard enough (or somewhere in between) despite being the will of the people.
As long as the population want one thing, but the political parties continue to give the exact opposite, we'll always have conflict.

Personally, even though I wouldn't be allowed to vote, I'd be happy to go along with the majority, either way.

But then I have faith in the people of Britain.
 
As long as the population want one thing, but the political parties continue to give the exact opposite, we'll always have conflict.

Personally, even though I wouldn't be allowed to vote, I'd be happy to go along with the majority, either way.

But then I have faith in the people of Britain.
But that's my point. "The majority" say yes or no. They don't vote on what is actually implemented and so the arguments carry on.
 
But that's my point. "The majority" say yes or no. They don't vote on what is actually implemented and so the arguments carry on.
So you are for the referendum idea then and the people deciding, no matter if they vote no. Good to hear.

Bannedontherun is on the popular side. 👍
 
So you are for the referendum idea then and the people deciding, no matter if they vote no. Good to hear.

Bannedontherun is on the popular side. 👍
If you say so.

What I actually said is that referenda with a yes/no option are a very bad idea.

Say, for example, all "immigration" is stopped. What happens then? Do people who want to live in Spain get told that they have to stay in the UK? Who decides who is and isn't an immigrant? If you're living in Spain as a UK citizen are you banned from coming "home"?

The will of the the people cannot ever be binary.
 
Please explain
My understanding is that the number of people employed to process claims fell significantly relative to the number that needed processing. Rather than increasing capacity which I also understand they've been able to do quite easily historically, the Tories chose to house the claimants in hotels at a much higher cost than it would've taken to employ more people, & use this as a means to demonstrate the cost to the British taxpayer.

Unsurprisingly, this makes the issue toxic as people inevitably see the financial cost, & not the human cost.

By no means am I suggesting that it should be unrestricted or uncontrolled immigration, but I'd say the way things have been managed over the last 5 or so years has meant any humanity or degree of dignity has been well & truly trampled on.

Regarding a referendum...well, we saw how Brexit turned out. In a business context, any organisation posing the question of whether to change something significant so drastically, would take stock of the pros & cons, & communicate this accordingly allowing people (whether it's a board of directors, or workers) to make a considered decision.

For Brexit, there literally was no plan on how to deliver it - perhaps it was arrogance, or perhaps you just had to 'believe' in it like a cult member, for it to magically happen successfully.

It quickly turned into an emotive issue (based around 'sovereignty', 'getting the country back' etc) - things easier to communicate than tangible positives & negatives. And that's how a referendum in immigration would turn out, probably worse so - another chaotic situation, just like Brexit.
 
If you say so.

What I actually said is that referenda with a yes/no option are a very bad idea.

Say, for example, all "immigration" is stopped. What happens then? Do people who want to live in Spain get told that they have to stay in the UK? Who decides who is and isn't an immigrant? If you're living in Spain as a UK citizen are you banned from coming "home"?

The will of the the people cannot ever be binary.
Well bearing in mind, this isn't real. It's just an idea.
No one's putting forward the ridiculous idea that all immigration should be stopped and should be voted on to be stopped.
Can you see that?
 
Well bearing in mind, this isn't real. It's just an idea.
No one's putting forward the ridiculous idea that all immigration should be stopped and should be voted on to be stopped.
Can you see that?
A number of UK politicians are, aided and abetted by their mates in the media and on platforms such as "X".

Just like a large number of politicians want the UK to leave the ECHR, with or without a referendum on it,

But we've moved quite a way from the original topic.
 
My understanding is that the number of people employed to process claims fell significantly relative to the number that needed processing. Rather than increasing capacity which I also understand they've been able to do quite easily historically, the Tories chose to house the claimants in hotels at a much higher cost than it would've taken to employ more people, & use this as a means to demonstrate the cost to the British taxpayer.

Unsurprisingly, this makes the issue toxic as people inevitably see the financial cost, & not the human cost.
I'm not sure if your understanding is correct or otherwise but to play devils advocate it "we" had increased the rate at which immigrants could be processed the already stressed infrastructure would have been over run. The fact is these people have entered the country illegally and therefore the process must be thorough, surely the best way is for them to remain in the first safe country they arrive in and then apply to come here, it may well be a long process but I'm not sure that excuses breaking our laws. I understand that some people feel this is wrong but we have to be practical and we can't all just have what we want because we "deserve" it.
 
It's pointless debating. Mostly, we are just determined to never see things.

I see the usual people edging towards the authoritative line: you don't like the current conflict, so the solution is silencing people. Great, but I'd say that's part of the reason why we've got here.

Here's a simple suggestion for people who love the democratic voice of the people.

Why not have a referendum on this...
'Do you want uncontrolled immigration?' Yes or no?

The answer might make this debate unnecessary.

We don't have uncontrolled immigration now?
We have shite rules and implementation - but it is not uncontrolled...
 
We don't have uncontrolled immigration now?
We have shite rules and implementation - but it is not uncontrolled...
It most definitely is uncontrolled when it comes to illegal migration. They have no idea who they are letting in most of the time and they are living rent free, claiming benefits, noncing our women/kids and nothing is done. How many illegal immigants are women and children?

Do you think if I travelled to Syria or Somalia for example without a passport, they would put me up in a 4 star hotel?
 
It most definitely is uncontrolled when it comes to illegal migration. They have no idea who they are letting in most of the time and they are living rent free, claiming benefits, noncing our women/kids and nothing is done. How many illegal immigants are women and children?

Do you think if I travelled to Syria or Somalia for example without a passport, they would put me up in a 4 star hotel?
It's uncontrolled by most people's standards.
 
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