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The woke wankers cried

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
What a shame - I don’t have an issue with anyone disliking socialism or any other ism for that matter.

I simply asked how you categorise “real need”. What you seem to be suggesting is that you do it on an individual, almost case-by-case basis. Which is unworkable, because as with almost everything, you’d need to set some parameters in the first place before progressing further.

To add, if it’s done on a case-by-case basis, then it becomes arbitrary. For instance you may think that person who had a decent job, became unemployed & then developed an illness rendering him/her unable to work, as someone who isn’t in “real need”, whereas another person would think the opposite.

But whatever the discussion, blame socialism. An unhealthy obsession.
I don't really have an issue with socialism, I have an issue with socialists telling me what to do and what to think.

When faced with a difficult problem, I was taught that you looked at the parts of the problem that you could solve and dealt with them. So I would start with the easy stuff. Plenty of examples, those choosing to live on benefits as a lifestyle choice for a start, anyone committing benefit fraud, faking illness or infirmity. Start there.

I appreciate that setting standards and making decisions is difficult for you, but if you are going to start handing out taxpayers money, then it needs to be done. As always 'hard cases make bad law' but if you want money in sufficient quantity to genuinely help people in need then stop giving it to wasters and cheats.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Erm AFC called himself a "Christian". That's what we've been talking about. What label have you been given?

I believe AFC has been throwing around the Socialist word a bit. No idea why? Doesn't apply to me...
I have clearly defined my use of the word Christian in this context. I grew up at a time that is was commonplace to teach right and wrong via the christian faith. I rejected the religious aspect but held on to some of the principles.

Prefer to call me something else because I am not 'religious', fine by me.

Most of my critics on here want me to put my hands in my pocket to pay for things that they believe in. That is socialism and there is a lot of it about.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
I know we're going off topic, but I do find it a bit odd that you'll post endlessly about people you consider not worthy of financial assistance, yet not bat an eyelid on the subject of the current Govt enriching themselves and their chums, and the rich stuffing their pockets with their tax dodges etc. The benefits bill is a drop in the ocean compared to what that lot are pilfering.
You are right, it is off topic.

But that said I totally agree with you, that is disgusting behaviour at the best of times and recently has not been the best of times. Not an easy subject to deal with short of armed revolution, if you have any suggestions I am all ears.
 

Richardvanles

Season Ticket Holder
I have clearly defined my use of the word Christian in this context. I grew up at a time that is was commonplace to teach right and wrong via the christian faith. I rejected the religious aspect but held on to some of the principles.

Prefer to call me something else because I am not 'religious', fine by me.

Most of my critics on here want me to put my hands in my pocket to pay for things that they believe in. That is socialism and there is a lot of it about.
Where as you want us to put out hands in our pockets and be forced to pay for things we don’t believe in. That’s capitalism I guess.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
He is bound to hold that view (if he does). Being a right Libertarian.

Taxation is a construct of government and a belief in small government would result in frustration, seeing people deemed not worthy - getting state welfare.

So avoiding tax when you're rich is fine. Because taxation is a government thing.

Even though of course, you are left with what happens to those who don't get state aid and also a government, directly involved in tax avoidance and corruption.
You are struggling Ss, conflating the practical issues that we are dealing with now with political philosophy is really not very clever.

You also suggest that I support avoiding tax, that is an outright lie. Very poor Ss.

Most of the aspects of out government are broken, beyond repair in many cases, but as I said to Club book, short of armed revolution, I do not know what to do about it. So tackle the things that we can fix, work from there.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Where as you want us to put out hands in our pockets and be forced to pay for things we don’t believe in. That’s capitalism I guess.
No that is extortion. I believe in capitalism at the most fundamental level, you get to keep the fruits of your labours.

You get to exchange your capital with others for goods and services for mutual benefit, it is that simple. Forcing people to spend their capital on things that they do not want or need is criminal extortion. If those things are dictated by politicians it is socialism.
 

Mistryman

Follower
When faced with a difficult problem, I was taught that you looked at the parts of the problem that you could solve and dealt with them. So I would start with the easy stuff. Plenty of examples, those choosing to live on benefits as a lifestyle choice for a start, anyone committing benefit fraud, faking illness or infirmity. Start there.
So there is a list. Maybe if you'd just answered a simple question rather than ranting about socialism, we'd have saved ourselves a lot of trouble.

Since you've provided a list, I could refer you back to this:
More socialism in action, now we have 'lists'. You couldn't make this shit up.
...but then I'd probably get some obtuse BS about socialism again.
if you want money in sufficient quantity to genuinely help people in need then stop giving it to wasters and cheats.
I suggest you start with the present govt then in lieu of their brazen attitude towards corruption & contracts, rather than the ones you consider wasters & cheats in the general public.
 

SardiniaFox

Season Ticket Holder
No that is extortion. I believe in capitalism at the most fundamental level, you get to keep the fruits of your labours.

You get to exchange your capital with others for goods and services for mutual benefit, it is that simple. Forcing people to spend their capital on things that they do not want or need is criminal extortion. If those things are dictated by politicians it is socialism.
So how would you fund the police as an example? Or refuse collection? Or any other shared benefit?
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
So there is a list. Maybe if you'd just answered a simple question rather than ranting about socialism, we'd have saved ourselves a lot of trouble.

Since you've provided a list, I could refer you back to this:

...but then I'd probably get some obtuse BS about socialism again.

I suggest you start with the present govt then in lieu of their brazen attitude towards corruption & contracts, rather than the ones you consider wasters & cheats in the general public.
No, there is no list, just take the easy stuff first, deal with that then move on.

The government is corrupt and not fit for purpose, it has been this way for some time, just more obvious at the moment.

Like I said above, if you have a way of dealing with that short of armed revolution, I am all ears.
 

SardiniaFox

Season Ticket Holder
No, there is no list, just take the easy stuff first, deal with that then move on.

The government is corrupt and not fit for purpose, it has been this way for some time, just more obvious at the moment.

Like I said above, if you have a way of dealing with that short of armed revolution, I am all ears.
But you voted for it. So it can't have been TOO corrupt?
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
So how would you fund the police as an example? Or refuse collection? Or any other shared benefit?
I shall ignore the obvious response regarding the police, but assuming we had a functioning police force.

I have no problem paying my share of taxes, I would like those taxes set by a democratically accountable authority but that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Again, it is important not to conflate any practical suggestions with dealing with where we are now with political theory. Very different discussions.
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
You are struggling Ss, conflating the practical issues that we are dealing with now with political philosophy is really not very clever.

You also suggest that I support avoiding tax, that is an outright lie. Very poor Ss.

Most of the aspects of out government are broken, beyond repair in many cases, but as I said to Club book, short of armed revolution, I do not know what to do about it. So tackle the things that we can fix, work from there.

Check the brackets...
 

sixthswan

Don't Welch
No that is extortion. I believe in capitalism at the most fundamental level, you get to keep the fruits of your labours.

You get to exchange your capital with others for goods and services for mutual benefit, it is that simple. Forcing people to spend their capital on things that they do not want or need is criminal extortion. If those things are dictated by politicians it is socialism.

How is it socialism? Governments make decisions on how the money they collect from you, is spent. It might be spent on blowing innocent people to pieces. Hardly socialism.
 

SardiniaFox

Season Ticket Holder
Is that really the best you have got...

Tiresome? As is reading your constant blame shifting.

You claim they are corrupt.

You still think they are worth voting for?

As for taxes, shared responsibility has a lot of benefits you seem to be blissfully unaware of.
 

SardiniaFox

Season Ticket Holder
I shall ignore the obvious response regarding the police, but assuming we had a functioning police force.

I have no problem paying my share of taxes, I would like those taxes set by a democratically accountable authority but that is not going to happen anytime soon.

Again, it is important not to conflate any practical suggestions with dealing with where we are now with political theory. Very different discussions.
Fire brigade? Schools? Road sweepers? Potholes?
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
How is it socialism? Governments make decisions on how the money they collect from you, is spent. It might be spent on blowing innocent people to pieces. Hardly socialism.
Depends on your definition of the word dictate. If the the government are dictating that you pay taxes without you having any say in it that is one thing. Our government is supposed to be responsible to the people.

That it is not is a different argument.
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Fire brigade? Schools? Road sweepers? Potholes?
I know what taxes are (supposed) to be used for, as I said I have no issue paying my share.

Small government can never work. Just a pointless ideology.
It can and does work in small communities. Difficult to implement in large modern situations but I think some of the guiding principles are sound and need thinking about. Governments are far too involved in matters that do not concern them.
 

Running Fox

Season Ticket Holder
Reading through the posts it is as if people just want to have a go at AFC? This is not a discussion it more like abuse, some of the questions are personal.
It would not matter what box was ticked, we would still be in the same mess as its just another wing of the same bird. Everything is done to divide us and keep us in a state of fear. Attack the people that can change things not each other.
 

bnet

Season Ticket Holder
That's is as may be. But you said those two parts of the city centre are more English, because there are more white faces.
l knew as soon as l posted it one of you lot would try and turn it into a racist post, its what you lot do !

I knew what l was saying and l just wondered what clown would pull the race card, and you beat the others to it.
 

SardiniaFox

Season Ticket Holder
Reading through the posts it is as if people just want to have a go at AFC? This is not a discussion it more like abuse, some of the questions are personal.
It would not matter what box was ticked, we would still be in the same mess as its just another wing of the same bird. Everything is done to divide us and keep us in a state of fear. Attack the people that can change things not each other.
Says a poster who likes to attack others' views.
 

Mistryman

Follower
Reading through the posts it is as if people just want to have a go at AFC? This is not a discussion it more like abuse, some of the questions are personal.
Nothing of the sort - it's only right comments are challenged. And if you still think it's 'abuse', there's actually probably only one other poster on here that can be labelled as unnecessarily & excessively abusive.
 

Richardvanles

Season Ticket Holder
No that is extortion. I believe in capitalism at the most fundamental level, you get to keep the fruits of your labours.

You get to exchange your capital with others for goods and services for mutual benefit, it is that simple. Forcing people to spend their capital on things that they do not want or need is criminal extortion. If those things are dictated by politicians it is socialism.
Forced to pay for a pandemic while the capitslists increase their wealth by 35% while food bank use increased by 33% Yes that’s extortion.
We have more empty houses than homeless thanks to the capitalist system and we are in a situation where we have homeless in full time employment but can’t afford a roof over their head.
That’s capitalism.
 

hackneyfox

Season Ticket Holder
Forcing people to spend their capital on things that they do not want or need is criminal extortion. If those things are dictated by politicians it is socialism.
It’s what you do in a society but I suppose you agree with Thatcher on that score.
That’s why we pay taxes. You can’t just pay what you like and then get to tick a number of boxes as to where it gets spent.
 

bnet

Season Ticket Holder
It’s what you do in a society but I suppose you agree with Thatcher on that score.
That’s why we pay taxes. You can’t just pay what you like and then get to tick a number of boxes as to where it gets spent.
taxes go to the 1%. its nothing to do with what they say taxes go towards, the IRS money paid by the working Yanks goes to The City of London. Its all lies.

If everyone stopped believing their lies it will be over. All tax is illegal, that is a fact !
 

hackneyfox

Season Ticket Holder
So what is that pays for the police, education, nhs etc? I don’t drink that much.
Not paying tax is illegal, unless you’re rich, that is a fact!
 

AFCDorset

Season Ticket Holder
Reading through the posts it is as if people just want to have a go at AFC? This is not a discussion it more like abuse, some of the questions are personal.
It would not matter what box was ticked, we would still be in the same mess as its just another wing of the same bird. Everything is done to divide us and keep us in a state of fear. Attack the people that can change things not each other.
Thanks for the support Rf, it does not bother me, mostly they are intellectual cowards posting shit out of some socialist activist hand book. They are not even very good at that.

I posted some time ago that I war reasonably happy to let a few very wealthy people look after the world whilst I got on with my life, until fairly recently I would have stood by that. Now I am not so sure.
 
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