Just had my second jab

Serious question.
If the vaccines doesn’t stop you catching covid and doesn’t stop you passing it on, what do they actually do?
 
Richardvanles said:
Serious question.
If the vaccines doesn’t stop you catching covid and doesn’t stop you passing it on, what do they actually do?
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Allegedly they reduce symptoms if you do become infected. This is supposed to mean that you are less likely to need hospitalisation.

However given lower symptoms for a similar level of infection (viral load) means that you may be more infectious to others in the early stages.

This is how it is supposed to work, nothing to do with side effects or the various 'theories' of what it actually does to your system.
 
AFCDorset said:
Allegedly they reduce symptoms if you do become infected. This is supposed to mean that you are less likely to need hospitalisation.

However given lower symptoms for a similar level of infection (viral load) means that you may be more infectious to others in the early stages.

This is how it is supposed to work, nothing to do with side effects or the various 'theories' of what it actually does to your system.
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I’ll take that. About you showing less serious symptoms. Reducing the risk of hospitalisation etc.
Media is telling us that nearly everyone has been double jabbed so the hospitals don’t need protecting (which was an argument if only a few had the jab and you take the less serious symptoms as correct) so... to put it another way, how does me not getting double jabbed infringe on those that have chosen to be jabbed and why are the ones who think everyone should be force jabbed or barred from society thinking in such a way?
Don’t want smart answers or abuse just some proper discussion for a change because I’ve never been given a solid answer that holds up.
 
I'm not arguing that you should be jabbed. Just an attempt to answer your question.

The only argument that could be given (I'm guessing), is that you might get more serious symptoms, or have a greater statistical chance of taking up a hospital bed. Meaning you present a greater risk to others (viral load) and a create an avoidable drain on health resources.
 
sixthswan said:
I'm not arguing that you should be jabbed. Just an attempt to answer your question.

The only argument that could be given (I'm guessing), is that you might get more serious symptoms, or have a greater statistical chance of taking up a hospital bed. Meaning you present a greater risk to others (viral load) and a create an avoidable drain on health resources.
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Yep, if you believe the narrative. But by believing the same narrative (from the same media sources) they are claiming that either 80 or 90 percent have now been double jabbed in the UK. (Can’t remember the exact number) So the 10% or 20% that are exposed to a greater viral load who actually get the virus and then have to be hospitalised is minimal. Agreed?
So it still begs the question why those that are cautious of the jab need to be coerced, bribed, financially forced and ostracised from society to get them to get jabbed up.
 
Again I'm not arguing against you, but putting forward an alternative view.

20% of the adult population is how many people?

Remember though, I'm not an advocate of jabbing up.
 
sixthswan said:
Again I'm not arguing against you, but putting forward an alternative view.

20% of the adult population is how many people?

Remember though, I'm not an advocate of jabbing up.
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I know you’re not and to be fair to you you have stated it numerous times in the past.
Your the guy who uses maths daily 😛 you’ve already admitted that. So I reckon it’s around 0.7 million to 1.4 million still unjabbed or single jabbed. The % of hospitalisation from contracting covid is what? I don’t know but it’s not that many as a percentage and they are all not going to be hospitalised at the same time. So it won’t overcrowd the hospitals but there is a cost obviously. But if anyone talks about the cost I would point them to this shower of shit of a government who have given billions to their mates and donors throughout this so called pandemic and explain to them to sort that shit out first Ned the absolute planks who voted for them.
I honestly can’t see any real argument to insist everyone gets jabbed.
 
If 20% of the adult population is "unjabbed", then that is over 10 and half million people.

I'll not argue about how shit the government is.
 
sixthswan said:
If 20% of the adult population is "unjabbed", then that is over 10 and half million people.

I'll not argue about how shit the government is.
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Just checked it out. 75% double jabbed and 6 million of over 18’s unvaccinated in uk. Not sure on percentage of this 6 million will get covid and need hospitalisation though.
So you’re saying that it’s all about protecting the NHS?
Shame those (I typed a swear word but deleted it as I don’t want this turning into a name calling thing) err folk that voted this government in weren’t concerned more about protecting the NHS when they had the chance...
Also a shame that those folk (they know who they are) that have been advocating forcing folk to get jabbed are not coming forward on this discussion to add their point of view.
 
I'll leave this for others to respond to.
Because I didn't vote for them and I don't advocate forced vaccinations.
 
Richardvanles said:
I’ll take that. About you showing less serious symptoms. Reducing the risk of hospitalisation etc.
Media is telling us that nearly everyone has been double jabbed so the hospitals don’t need protecting (which was an argument if only a few had the jab and you take the less serious symptoms as correct) so... to put it another way, how does me not getting double jabbed infringe on those that have chosen to be jabbed and why are the ones who think everyone should be force jabbed or barred from society thinking in such a way?
Don’t want smart answers or abuse just some proper discussion for a change because I’ve never been given a solid answer that holds up.
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People have been told that the virus is spread by the un-jabbed, no logic or reason given, just that they are in some way unclean.

Therefore they, the fully jabbed, are at risk and it is the un-jabbed who are the cause of that risk. They are also told, again without much in the way of evidence, that the un-jabbed will take up all the hospital beds that they the fully jabbed might need. Severe logic failure there.

Essentially it boils down to a matter of belief, the un-jabbed are not 'one of them', and are being irresponsible, it is the fault of the un-jabbed that everything is falling apart and that they, the responsibly fully jabbed can not go on their holidays.
 
AFCDorset said:
People have been told that the virus is spread by the un-jabbed, no logic or reason given, just that they are in some way unclean.

Therefore they, the fully jabbed, are at risk and it is the un-jabbed who are the cause of that risk. They are also told, again without much in the way of evidence, that the un-jabbed will take up all the hospital beds that they the fully jabbed might need. Severe logic failure there.

Essentially it boils down to a matter of belief, the un-jabbed are not 'one of them', and are being irresponsible, it is the fault of the un-jabbed that everything is falling apart and that they, the responsibly fully jabbed can not go on their holidays.
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I'm half way through watching an interview with Clif High who is explaining all of this. I wouldn't share it on here as it will drive some insane with anger ! This fella studies algorithm's and is very accurate with what he discloses.
 
Richardvanles said:
Also a shame that those folk (they know who they are) that have been advocating forcing folk to get jabbed are not coming forward on this discussion to add their point of view.
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to be fair there aren't that many on here advocating forced vaccination. i can only think of one for definite, and maybe a couple others.

i think most - and certainly me - is live and let live. you make your own choice, you take your own chance.
my objection is to - what i perceive to be - misinformation (i appreciate others don't consider it thus) e.g. i'll be dead in 2/5/30 years. i think that's where most of the arguments/discussions start.

regarding your other point - the vaccines were developed around the alpha variant. we were told right from the start it was a race against time to get people vaccinated before it mutates, but then delta mutation came along. as you've agreed, the vaccine is still effective at reducing symptoms but nowhere near infallible. and that is the reason for the drive to get a jab into the un-vaccinated...in the hope they can drive it out of society before it mutates again. so i think its a double objective - the keep those ~10m out of hospital (there's been plenty written on here about NHS waiting times, so the sooner its back to some sort of normality the better) and its to reduce the mutation risk.

but on the second objective - its a false anyway. all bar one of these variants originated outside the UK, so even if UK is 100% vaxxed any mutation elsewhere will find its way to these shores.
 
bnet said:
I'm half way through watching an interview with Clif High who is explaining all of this. I wouldn't share it on here as it will drive some insane with anger ! This fella studies algorithm's and is very accurate with what he discloses.
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Started to watch it last night 👍
 
Adumass said:
to be fair there aren't that many on here advocating forced vaccination. i can only think of one for definite, and maybe a couple others.

i think most - and certainly me - is live and let live. you make your own choice, you take your own chance.
my objection is to - what i perceive to be - misinformation (i appreciate others don't consider it thus) e.g. i'll be dead in 2/5/30 years. i think that's where most of the arguments/discussions start.

regarding your other point - the vaccines were developed around the alpha variant. we were told right from the start it was a race against time to get people vaccinated before it mutates, but then delta mutation came along. as you've agreed, the vaccine is still effective at reducing symptoms but nowhere near infallible. and that is the reason for the drive to get a jab into the un-vaccinated...in the hope they can drive it out of society before it mutates again. so i think its a double objective - the keep those ~10m out of hospital (there's been plenty written on here about NHS waiting times, so the sooner its back to some sort of normality the better) and its to reduce the mutation risk.

but on the second objective - its a false anyway. all bar one of these variants originated outside the UK, so even if UK is 100% vaxxed any mutation elsewhere will find its way to these shores.
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Agreed about mis information. But the point is no one knows and that it has the potential to be harmful long term and certainly it has harmed a few short term. With reference to you point on delta variant, jabbed or unjabbed the amount who catch it will be the same. The vaccine doesn’t stop you getting covid only potentially less symptoms. It will not drive it out and like you say, there will be another variant just around the corner.
 
And now the booster jabs! A tacit acknowledgment by the manufacturers (who have conveniently just put up the price of the vaccine despite spiraling profits) that it is not working. 2 injections of something experiemental that doesn't work very well, won't stop me catching or passing on the virus, might make me sick for other reasons, has no comeback on the drug firms and is only good for about 6 months. How have we come to this?! Johnson and his ilk have ploughed their furrow and are never going to admit their mistakes. It was at best a gamble that does not seem to have paid off.
 
What l can say to people who are contemplating having the jab or their second id please wait a month. There shattering information coming out so l believe regarding this. Just hold fire a bit.
 
bnet said:
What l can say to people who are contemplating having the jab or their second id please wait a month. There shattering information coming out so l believe regarding this. Just hold fire a bit.
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Would love to know a bit more!
 
I would love to believe that you are right bnet, but sadly, even if you are, nothing will be reported so nothing will happen.
 
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