Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
Says the man using identity politics
Any of you gullible fuckers
- Thread starter bnet
- Start date
You made that assumption. Someone saying the opposite to you or challenging you, doesn’t make them a ‘lefty’.
Which means you end up using overused cliches to back up your entrenched views.
S
SardiniaFox
Guest
Fuck off back to your bigoted insular world wanker.
AFCDorset
Roofer
No. Identity politics uses your race, gender and culture to fit you into a hierarchy of control. I am just calling people out for what they are. I make no judgements because, in the main, it does not matter to me.
I have to make assumptions, you are not open about who or what you are, you talk like a lefty, walk like a lefty....
Still waiting for an example of my 'entrenched views'. In your own time.
Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
Woke. Lefty. Socialist. Marxist. You're making assumptions about people and placing them into a group. It's not just race, gender and culture.
It’s been pointed out to you before & you even admitted there was a possibility of it, due to your age - not enough time in the world for me to trawl through the archives.No. Identity politics uses your race, gender and culture to fit you into a hierarchy of control. I am just calling people out for what they are. I make no judgements because, in the main, it does not matter to me.
I have to make assumptions, you are not open about who or what you are, you talk like a lefty, walk like a lefty....
Still waiting for an example of my 'entrenched views'. In your own time.
Besides you’ve never seen me walk.
RocketClock
Registered
RocketClock
Registered
AFCDorset
Roofer
Perhaps, but one persons assessment of another is hardly identity politics. 'The lady doth protest too much....'
Sorry, what is 'it'?
No need to trawl, just give me an example of my entrenched views.
My age is only relevant in that I can recognise a bandwagon when I see one.
Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
Is this a new child who just adds smileys but doesn't actually contribute, or another username for a current user?
Looks like someone needs to get back to Identity Politics school.
AFCDorset
Roofer
Don't be unkind. Encourage him to contribute.
‘It’ is/was you admitting to the possibility of being entrenched.
As I recall, it was about you doing your woke/lefty schtick & not understanding how the world has moved on since you were a youth.
AFCDorset
Roofer
Unlike most people on here I am quite happy to put forward my views on a range of subjects, I say what I think and, in many cases, will robustly defend them. Cryptic comments and sarky comments are not really my thing.
Occasionally, believe it or not, I find that someone makes a counter argument that is interesting and worthwhile. As an honest, straightforward individual, I might acknowledge that.
I am not dogmatic, I subscribe to no political 'theory' but I do call modern life as I see it. Some people find that difficult to handle.
One day, perhaps as you get older, you will work out that 'moved on' does not necessarily mean that you are in a better place.
Occasionally, believe it or not, I find that someone makes a counter argument that is interesting and worthwhile. As an honest, straightforward individual, I might acknowledge that.
I am not dogmatic, I subscribe to no political 'theory' but I do call modern life as I see it. Some people find that difficult to handle.
One day, perhaps as you get older, you will work out that 'moved on' does not necessarily mean that you are in a better place.
RegiRoka
Roofer
Well generalising a little...
Lefties, Conservatives etc... When I was younger, tended to follow the route of ideas. They debated ideas about economics, nation, internationalism, worker's rights, women's rights, racial equality, homosexuality, just about everything. Granted it was emotional, and granted it became tribal and petty at times, and it still does. But the key to it was focussing on ideas. It would have sounded quite strange back then to start opinion with something like, "As a short, bald man, I think we should get rid of nuclear weapons."
Identity Politics, I don't think, puts ideas to the fore. It's more about identifying with one group that you were born into, or have found yourself drawn into, or have just ended up there, and somehow, believing that you're imbued to have special privaliges in the area of ideas. (Oh, and it's very good at dividing people and getting people to argue, to my way of seeing things, often about not much at all.)
It's easy to see how one aspect of it works with just one cliché:
"As a gay single father,...."
I am gay: my opinion about this next thing that I talk about needs to be considered with more weight. (I know what I'm talking about, you probably don't.)
I am gay: I belong to a victim group, so I deserve to be listened to and not criticised, because if you do that, then you're homophobic or something horrid. (You are an oppressor)
I am gay: I belong to the 'good' side. I'm on the side of love. Anyone who disagrees with me belongs to the 'bad'.
I am a gay + single + father = I'm just about untouchable now in the debate that follows.
It's true that people have always been nasty, name-calling. But if someone wants to call me 'alt-right' or 'woke', I see that as name-calling, or misinformed labelling. Although, you may be giving me the opportunity to play the victim card if I feel like it.
Now, please don't ask me to join in this debate. It's fucking pathetic. Especially that bit about being scared of needles. Cunt.
Lefties, Conservatives etc... When I was younger, tended to follow the route of ideas. They debated ideas about economics, nation, internationalism, worker's rights, women's rights, racial equality, homosexuality, just about everything. Granted it was emotional, and granted it became tribal and petty at times, and it still does. But the key to it was focussing on ideas. It would have sounded quite strange back then to start opinion with something like, "As a short, bald man, I think we should get rid of nuclear weapons."
Identity Politics, I don't think, puts ideas to the fore. It's more about identifying with one group that you were born into, or have found yourself drawn into, or have just ended up there, and somehow, believing that you're imbued to have special privaliges in the area of ideas. (Oh, and it's very good at dividing people and getting people to argue, to my way of seeing things, often about not much at all.)
It's easy to see how one aspect of it works with just one cliché:
"As a gay single father,...."
I am gay: my opinion about this next thing that I talk about needs to be considered with more weight. (I know what I'm talking about, you probably don't.)
I am gay: I belong to a victim group, so I deserve to be listened to and not criticised, because if you do that, then you're homophobic or something horrid. (You are an oppressor)
I am gay: I belong to the 'good' side. I'm on the side of love. Anyone who disagrees with me belongs to the 'bad'.
I am a gay + single + father = I'm just about untouchable now in the debate that follows.
It's true that people have always been nasty, name-calling. But if someone wants to call me 'alt-right' or 'woke', I see that as name-calling, or misinformed labelling. Although, you may be giving me the opportunity to play the victim card if I feel like it.
Now, please don't ask me to join in this debate. It's fucking pathetic. Especially that bit about being scared of needles. Cunt.
RubberDoug
Registered
Suck it up dumbass.
RubberDoug
Registered
Consequently, you may also work out that getting older doesn’t necessarily mean that the older ways were better, because that era placed certain groups at a disadvantage, even more so than now
Just because you don’t belong to those groups, doesn’t mean you can’t still empathise/sympathise with their situation or POV.
The two are are not mutually exclusive.
Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
There are people who take that approach but none on here as far as I know.
AFCDorset
Roofer
Morning all.
The world moves on Mistryman, things change, attitudes change with them, we are every bit as judgemental now as we were 50 or so years ago, do I really have to call out 'Paki-bashing' or the dreadful behaviour of the NF every time I want to criticise BLM and their dreadful behaviour?
Once again I see that identity politics is to the fore, the inference that if you belong to certain groups you deserve special consideration is the very basis of identity politics and a very destructive force in our society.
Just because I abhor identity politics as a social and political tool does not mean that I can not be against racism.
As someone said, "the two are not mutually exclusive'.
F
Foxgolfer
Guest
The very fact folks are arguing about this shows how the false culture war this government have stoked up is clearly working .
Meanwhile our PM and Foreign secretary sit smirking on the front bench like naughty schoolboys as our country’s reputation is trashed in full view of the watching world .
Meanwhile our PM and Foreign secretary sit smirking on the front bench like naughty schoolboys as our country’s reputation is trashed in full view of the watching world .
AFCDorset
Roofer
Morning Fg.
I think this goes back rather further than this government. The kind of socio/political methods of control being discussed were instigated by Blairs hardline core that ran the Labour government some twenty years ago, they go back even further in the US.
'Common Purpose' was embedded across all government and public sector organisations from this time on, politicising everything and destroying anyone who dared to object.
sixthswan
Non-Member
Couldn't agree more with this. Identity politics is a load of shite.
The bit about the needles was just a joke...
sixthswan
Non-Member
It goes back far, far further than Blair...
AFCDorset
Roofer
I guess it does, but the socio political restructuring of our society in the last 20 or so years is unprecedented.
In terms of both speed and effect this 20 year period has altered and restructured this country forever, bar the two world wars, nothing has changed this country so radically and so comprehensively.
I'd argue it's not special consideration, but equal consideration - there is a difference.
This it seems does not suit some people as it means they have to compromise - so the only thing destructive is their unwillingness or inability to change or adapt.
Was giving women the vote "special consideration"? Was ensuring that people are not discredited for roles purely for having 'unfamiliar' names (rather than their ability to do the job), "special consideration"?
AFCDorset
Roofer
But it is not 'equal consideration' is it. Affirmative action, all female shortlists, etc put paid to that.
I keep trying to explain to you that my disgust at certain aspects of social engineering through wokeism and identity politics is in no way a defence of discrimination, it is a reaction to the methods and ridiculous over reach of the methods employed.
We have spoken about this before, I treat people on here with respect and politeness and I do the same in real life, what on earth makes you think that I don't?
You bring up the issue of women voting, I am not a democratic in the modern sense of the word and I do not believe in universal suffrage, but I see no reason to discriminate on gender or racial grounds. As for exotic names, surely we are past that now?
I keep trying to explain to you that my disgust at certain aspects of social engineering through wokeism and identity politics is in no way a defence of discrimination, it is a reaction to the methods and ridiculous over reach of the methods employed.
We have spoken about this before, I treat people on here with respect and politeness and I do the same in real life, what on earth makes you think that I don't?
You bring up the issue of women voting, I am not a democratic in the modern sense of the word and I do not believe in universal suffrage, but I see no reason to discriminate on gender or racial grounds. As for exotic names, surely we are past that now?
For all your supposed worldliness, I think you're viewing things through a very narrow lens if you think respect & politeness is all that's needed.
Speaking as an British-born Asian, I can certainly testify (as i'm sure immigrant generations before me can as well) that all you received as reward where you combined hard work with respect & politeness was a pat on the head & an expectation to know your place.
Why your name matters in the search for a job
Why jobseekers with ethnic names change personal details on their CVs.
www.bbc.co.uk
RegiRoka
Roofer
I think that's fair enough.For all your supposed worldliness, I think you're viewing things through a very narrow lens if you think respect & politeness is all that's needed.
Speaking as an British-born Asian, I can certainly testify (as i'm sure immigrant generations before me can as well) that all you received as reward where you combined hard work with respect & politeness was a pat on the head & an expectation to know your place.
Why your name matters in the search for a job
Why jobseekers with ethnic names change personal details on their CVs.www.bbc.co.uk
But what do you think certain of us, from certain backgrounds experienced?
What do you think some of my non-Indian mates, and myself, might have experienced doing manual work for older Indians in Belgrave?