The TUC and Labour

HughJanus said:
Define what
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I understand what you mean. You're talking about being a decent human being. I think you're right. I can't easily define it and say who deserves what and who doesn't, but I don't think anyone here would like to see orphans on the street begging, or to see workhouses come back, or to see people with no money get no medical help.
 
RubberDoug said:
I understand what you mean. You're talking about being a decent human being. I think you're right. I can't easily define it and say who deserves what and who doesn't, but I don't think anyone here would like to see orphans on the street begging, or to see workhouses come back, or to see people with no money get no medical help.
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Arsely would get that dulux colour chart out first before he answered.
 
RubberDoug said:
I understand what you mean. You're talking about being a decent human being. I think you're right. I can't easily define it and say who deserves what and who doesn't, but I don't think anyone here would like to see orphans on the street begging, or to see workhouses come back, or to see people with no money get no medical help.
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Yes he’s right, years ago it was taken for granted that’s what happened, I guess we can look back to the Ted Heath days of benevolent Conservatism of looking after the rich and big business and they will look after the rest of us, a sort of trickle down economy, but those days are long gone. You only have to look at the last couple of years where the mates of the Tory’s have made millions by dodgy means that the rest of us will be paying back for years. Look at the Labour Party who have jumped on the coat tails of how the Tory’s operate and are actively suspending and banning anyone with any sort of socialist ideas. The only reason both have not gone further is because they are worried there will be riots, but they’re taking baby steps to push their agendas through to marginalise anyone who they see as a none contributor and a burden while turning us all against each other.
 
Richardvanles said:
Yes he’s right, years ago it was taken for granted that’s what happened, I guess we can look back to the Ted Heath days of benevolent Conservatism of looking after the rich and big business and they will look after the rest of us, a sort of trickle down economy, but those days are long gone. You only have to look at the last couple of years where the mates of the Tory’s have made millions by dodgy means that the rest of us will be paying back for years. Look at the Labour Party who have jumped on the coat tails of how the Tory’s operate and are actively suspending and banning anyone with any sort of socialist ideas. The only reason both have not gone further is because they are worried there will be riots, but they’re taking baby steps to push their agendas through to marginalise anyone who they see as a none contributor and a burden while turning us all against each other.
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The reason why I like your Labour Party is the downright barefacedness of those guys. Green, woke, anti-Tory but with all the lights, bells, houses and expenses.
Your Tories are fucked. They have no leaders, they're almost as woke as Labour, they promise big, deliver little.
Both parties should no longer exist, but they are big pieces in the system of control. Big mechanisms for dishing out structure, cash, positions, connections, order.
 
Pen4 said:
Define an injustice and define how you would fix it.

Define who would pay for it.
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People who can’t afford to feed themselves in my opinion need to be helped to budget properly they need to be helped to be independent and support themselves. Those who don’t want to take responsibility for themselves or their dependents can’t be allowed to have the nice things the rest of us have to work for.
Those who need our help should get it without being stigmatised or criticised they should have our full support and assistance
Those of us who can afford to contribute should do so in a fair way. I don’t believe that just because someone is more talented than me, works harder than me or is just luckier than me should be penalised, that is to say we should all be taxed at one rate, the more you get the more you pay but it should never be punitive It is important that everyone feels included and alway feels part of society and is appreciated by society People are all individuals and have different requirements the most vulnerable should feel that they are important and the most wealthy should not feel ostracised
Yes I know it’s almost impossible to implement but I think we should give it our best efforts
 
HughJanus said:
People who can’t afford to feed themselves in my opinion need to be helped to budget properly they need to be helped to be independent and support themselves. Those who don’t want to take responsibility for themselves or their dependents can’t be allowed to have the nice things the rest of us have to work for.
Those who need our help should get it without being stigmatised or criticised they should have our full support and assistance
Those of us who can afford to contribute should do so in a fair way. I don’t believe that just because someone is more talented than me, works harder than me or is just luckier than me should be penalised, that is to say we should all be taxed at one rate, the more you get the more you pay but it should never be punitive It is important that everyone feels included and alway feels part of society and is appreciated by society People are all individuals and have different requirements the most vulnerable should feel that they are important and the most wealthy should not feel ostracised
Yes I know it’s almost impossible to implement but I think we should give it our best efforts
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Good for you buddy.
 
sixthswan said:
Which type of socialism?
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A type of socialism where utilities are owned by the people / government, where the whole of the NHS is run solely for the care of the people and not profit. Public transport is a viable alternative for everyone and profits and grants are not creamed off for shareholders and other countries. The vulnerable are looked after, that sort of socialism. Is there another type? Maybe Blair’s socialism or starmroids socialism?
 
So Managed Capitalism then. Rather than Socialism. Which is what Labour have always represented.

Starmer is "pledging"...

Common Ownership - Nationalisation, Public Transport and NHS

"Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system."

Social Justice - NHS

"Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS."

If you think Starmer isn't interested in looking after the vulnerable, then you haven't been concentrating.

Which bit of what you said is missing from the offer from Starmer?

Just for the record I think he's a cunt. But I'm going on what you have written...

There are multiple types of Socialism.
 
sixthswan said:
So Managed Capitalism then. Rather than Socialism. Which is what Labour have always represented.

Starmer is "pledging"...

Common Ownership - Nationalisation, Public Transport and NHS

"Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system."

Social Justice - NHS

"Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS."

If you think Starmer isn't interested in looking after the vulnerable, then you haven't been concentrating.

Which bit of what you said is missing from the offer from Starmer?

Just for the record I think he's a cunt. But I'm going on what you have written...

There are multiple types of Socialism.
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Are you for real?
Starmer has dismissed all his ten pledges that he “pledged” in his leadership bid. He cannot be trusted.
Look what Starmer has done to MP’s who have supported recent strikers. You really are either clueless or gullible.
 
Or having a laugh...

Do you think the Tories are more trustworthy then, with all those Socialist things you care about?
 
sixthswan said:
Or having a laugh...

Do you think the Tories are more trustworthy then, with all those Socialist things you care about?
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Nope, not at all but at least they’re up front about it. You know they’re going to shaft you. Some folk actually believe that Labour under Starmer will be different somehow.
The Labour Party should be fighting for the rights of workers and the most vulnerable but that isn’t their priority any more. The Tories haven’t lost their sense of priority and who they work for and represent. There is no alternative to the system we have in place at the moment and the Starmeroids are hoodwinking the population to suggest that there is. I don’t trust either side equally, to deliver a more caring society.
 
Agree with you on all of that. Annoyingly...

Starmer calculates that he needs to make Labour electable and distance himself from anything that whiffs of Corbyn.

But perhaps a sizeable chunk of the electorate might now think Corbyn was right about a few things.

I'm guessing he is taking a risk in thinking wavering Tories will warm to him, in light of the shit show that the Conservatives have offered.

Those Tories will still vote Tory at the next Election. So where are Starmer's votes going to come from?

Blair was a cunt too. But at least he had a vision and he convinced enough people about it.

Starmer has to somehow appear radical, without being perceived as dangerous. I doubt he can.
 
sixthswan said:
Agree with you on all of that. Annoyingly...

Starmer calculates that he needs to make Labour electable and distance himself from anything that whiffs of Corbyn.

But perhaps a sizeable chunk of the electorate might now think Corbyn was right about a few things.

I'm guessing he is taking a risk in thinking wavering Tories will warm to him, in light of the shit show that the Conservatives have offered.

Those Tories will still vote Tory at the next Election. So where are Starmer's votes going to come from?

Blair was a cunt too. But at least he had a vision and he convinced enough people about it.

Starmer has to somehow appear radical, without being perceived as dangerous. I doubt he can.
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The one thing that pissed me off with Corbyn is why he didn’t challenge the media, sue those that lied about him, even know after the leaking of the Forde report people are not aware of its findings because the popular news outlets just ignore it. Those now in charge of the Labour Party conspiring to ensure a Labour defeat in 2017 should be prosecuted for mis representation of funds. They are as rotten to the core as the Tories (for different reasons) I don’t know the answer, maybe I should be like the rest of the British public and stop caring. I’m comfortable financially, I’ve got private health care (with my job) so why should bother.
Anyway, took a major decision in my life a couple of weeks ago to because foster parents, had first meeting with the powers that be on Saturday. Just need to make sure it’s financial viable for us. Resigned to the fact I can’t change the world but maybe change one or two lives for the better. Maybe that’s the best I can achieve. Fuck em!
 
Fair play to you, taking the foster parent route (y)

Sadly anyone who wants to "lead" any country, has to have the media onside. Our media are scum...

We know the Tories favour profit and business, over people.

In current times of severe hardship for so many, we need a change. Using the energy companies as an example. Why should ordinary people foot the bill of rising costs, while those energy companies are still making obscene profits for shareholders. Use the fucking profits to soften the blow instead. No need to remove the price caps. No need to fuck peoples lives up.

At least Starmer argued for the hitting profits approach, while the Tories dithered for so long.

The differences between Conservative and Labour are quite subtle. Both have a task to fool the public into voting for them.
We are left to hope that Starmer is just playing a game, to get elected.
 
sixthswan said:
Fair play to you, taking the foster parent route (y)

Sadly anyone who wants to "lead" any country, has to have the media onside. Our media are scum...

We know the Tories favour profit and business, over people.

In current times of severe hardship for so many, we need a change. Using the energy companies as an example. Why should ordinary people foot the bill of rising costs, while those energy companies are still making obscene profits for shareholders. Use the fucking profits to soften the blow instead. No need to remove the price caps. No need to fuck peoples lives up.

At least Starmer argued for the hitting profits approach, while the Tories dithered for so long.

The differences between Conservative and Labour are quite subtle. Both have a task to fool the public into voting for them.
We are left to hope that Starmer is just playing a game, to get elected.
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I get that but I wouldn’t hold much hope in Starmer. He’s as slippery as the rest of them. Hope I’m wrong.
 
sixthswan said:
In current times of severe hardship for so many, we need a change. Using the energy companies as an example. Why should ordinary people foot the bill of rising costs, while those energy companies are still making obscene profits for shareholders. Use the fucking profits to soften the blow instead. No need to remove the price caps. No need to fuck peoples lives up.
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Don't forget there's an awful lot of pressure from the greenies to force people to use less energy and to make the energy companies invest and install renewable energy sources, this gives the excuse that they need the profits to pay for these projects
 
The energy companies already receive huge subsidies (£ billions) from the government (our money) for all the renewable crap.
On top of that they continue to make billions in profit.
They're taking the piss...
 
sixthswan said:
The energy companies already receive huge subsidies (£ billions) from the government (our money) for all the renewable crap.
On top of that they continue to make billions in profit.
They're taking the piss...
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You're quite right of course, they are very well placed to take advantage of loonies fucking with the worlds stability and someone has got to pay to get the Germans out of the shit they're in
 
Richardvanles said:
A type of socialism where utilities are owned by the people / government, where the whole of the NHS is run solely for the care of the people and not profit. Public transport is a viable alternative for everyone and profits and grants are not creamed off for shareholders and other countries. The vulnerable are looked after, that sort of socialism. Is there another type? Maybe Blair’s socialism or starmroids socialism?
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Do you think there was a time where we were close to that, or alternatively, when would you say we came closest?
 
SteveYork said:
Do you think there was a time where we were close to that, or alternatively, when would you say we came closest?
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I don’t know, it felt that way years ago but my working life literally started with Thatcher and it’s not got any better since.
I do know we didn’t need thousands of food banks years ago.
I do know old folk weren’t waiting 12 hours or more for an ambulance after a fall.
I do know we never had so many homeless in the streets.
 
Clement Attlee's government was the pinnacle of what Dick has suggested.
We've been trying to dismantle that ever since...
 
Richardvanles said:
I don’t know, it felt that way years ago but my working life literally started with Thatcher and it’s not got any better since.
I do know we didn’t need thousands of food banks years ago.
I do know old folk weren’t waiting 12 hours or more for an ambulance after a fall.
I do know we never had so many homeless in the streets.
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The Torys have set the country back.
Labour before them ended up being wicked due to an out of control benefit system.

Both got far too comfortable in power.
 
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