Tim Martin

F

Foxgolfer

Guest
Shortage of beer . Shortage of staff
Apparently it’s what he voted for 😂😂
 
Funny how nowhere in the EU has the same problems .
It’s almost as if all those pesky foreigners who deliver our food and drink ,pick out fruit and veg , look after our elderly , nurse our sick and staff our hotels were quite useful after all .
Apparently all these sectors are now pleading with the government for special status visas . Imagine that .
You’d be allowed in for a few months or years to keep our country functioning , but we don’t think you’re good enough to live here , have the same rights and raise your kids . Nah you can fuck off then .
What a disgusting little hole we’ve become
 
I am, as you all know, a restrained and polite chap, not taken to violence and abuse.

But the delight taken by some in the abject failure of this country to come to terms with the vote to leave is becoming tedious in the extreme.

It is especially galling as most of the problems we are experiencing are caused by remainers who dominate positions with in our government, civil service, legal system and the rest and have been deliberately obstructive to any attempts to move this country forward.

I am beginning to feel total contempt for these kinds of attitudes, which I think is sad but it appears to be the way that that it is going, the capability of the remainers to disappoint just gets greater and greater.
 
Who are remainers ? We’ve left ?
Do you mean people who care deeply about the country and are angry about the damage the liars who conned people to vote against their best interests have done ?

If you want a label they are called Rejoiners .
 
Disappointing yet again Foxgolpher. I have no problems with your views, just the usual projection that the problems we have are caused by Brexit when in fact it is all the objections and deliberate malfeasance of the pro EU lobby (whatever you want to call them) that are causing all the issues.

Calling people names is about all that you have, it is just a knee jerk reaction to being on the wrong side of history as in fact you are on most matters.
 
Germany is short of 40000 drivers too. Have they left?


 
Disappointing yet again Foxgolpher. I have no problems with your views, just the usual projection that the problems we have are caused by Brexit when in fact it is all the objections and deliberate malfeasance of the pro EU lobby (whatever you want to call them) that are causing all the issues.

Calling people names is about all that you have, it is just a knee jerk reaction to being on the wrong side of history as in fact you are on most matters.
You mean we are having to follow rules and suffer from the red tape we were previously exempt from, but now being a third country ( what you voted for ) involves ?

Incidentally as far as I’m aware no one was called any “ names “
 
Very similar to voting 'Leave' when none of the Leave cheerleaders could present a credible plan, & voting for a charlatan & liar like Johnson on the premise of a three-word slogan.
Mm. There always was a perfectly credible plan, it was called Article 50 and WTO rules.

After the result we should have enacted Article 50 and announced WTO as our default position. Negotiate from there.

But we did no such thing, we procrastinated and the remainers in public life did everything they could to make sure the process was as fucked up as possible. I can understand people wanting to stay in the EU, that is their view and they are entitled to it.

To my mind what is not acceptable is remainers in government going against the will of the people and making sure that ordinary people pay the price for daring to vote 'the wrong way'. That is, to me, quite despicable behaviour and something I can not forgive.
 
Seriously, leavers should just own this. This 'blaming others' lark is just boring now.
Exactly .I don’t blame people for voting leave .( I blame the liars who sold it )
I am however heartily sick of those Brexiters who are whingeing about it now they have “won” and blaming the people who said it would be a shit show because it’s a shit show .
 
Seriously, leavers should just own this. This 'blaming others' lark is just boring now.
Exactly .I don’t blame people for voting leave .( I blame the liars who sold it )
I am however heartily sick of those Brexiters who are whingeing about it now they have “won” and blaming the people who said it would be a shit show because it’s a shit show .
These two posts make it so clear as to exactly what has gone wrong with the Brexit process. The deliberate and quite wilful misrepresentation of what has happened since the referendum is the essence of the argument.

The Brexit vote was never won because the British state never had any intentions of accepting and implementing the result. The leave vote was rendered meaningless by the actions of the government, unless and until that is understood, we have no way to move this country forward.
 
The Brexit vote was never won because the British state never had any intentions of accepting and implementing the result.
And this sentence is absurd.

Leavers have twisted themselves into a corner where it's either someone else's fault they didn't get the version of Brexit that most of them couldn't detail beforehand anyway, or would happily accept even the worst version of Brexit that paralyses the country because at the end of the day, it's the "will of the people", & it means "Brexit was delivered".

Fucked-up thinking, for sure.
 
And this sentence is absurd.

Leavers have twisted themselves into a corner where it's either someone else's fault they didn't get the version of Brexit that most of them couldn't detail beforehand anyway, or would happily accept even the worst version of Brexit that paralyses the country because at the end of the day, it's the "will of the people", & it means "Brexit was delivered".

Fucked-up thinking, for sure.
The absolute crux of the issue.

We both look at the Brexit scenario and see exactly the same thing. The difference is in what we take out of it.

There is no need to twist anything, leavers voted to leave, in the words of the PM of the day we voted to 'leave the EU and all it's institution', that has not happened. They just say that we have, brino.

And I just love your casual dismissal of the 'will of the people', socialism in action.
 
The absolute crux of the issue.

We both look at the Brexit scenario and see exactly the same thing. The difference is in what we take out of it.

There is no need to twist anything, leavers voted to leave, in the words of the PM of the day we voted to 'leave the EU and all it's institution', that has not happened. They just say that we have, brino.

And I just love your casual dismissal of the 'will of the people', socialism in action.
which institutions do we still belong to ?
 
which institutions do we still belong to ?
We do not belong to any, we are simply controlled by them without a say.

We are still the largest contributor to the EU budget after Germany, we have fucked up on fishing, Northern Ireland, transport etc and made no attempts to negotiate terms to our advantage.
 
And I just love your casual dismissal of the 'will of the people', socialism in action.
Not a casual dismissal at all (I'm not as good at deflecting as you are) - more a case of what was the 'will of the people' if most of them were voting for an idea, but seemed to have little knowledge of how it was going to be done, because the cheerleaders they chose to believe didn't have a clue either.
 
Why is everyone ignoring the HGV driver pan European article
We do not belong to any, we are simply controlled by them without a say.

We are still the largest contributor to the EU budget after Germany, we have fucked up on fishing, Northern Ireland, transport etc and made no attempts to negotiate terms to our advantage.
 
Out of interest, if WTO rules are so great, why aren't others in mad rush to use them?
 
Not a casual dismissal at all (I'm not as good at deflecting as you are) - more a case of what was the 'will of the people' if most of them were voting for an idea, but seemed to have little knowledge of how it was going to be done, because the cheerleaders they chose to believe didn't have a clue either.
'The idea' was that of living in a free independent country. Very little else mattered.
Above all else they were anti 'Federal EU', not anti Europe.

People were not massively against being in the EEC, that was not the issue, it really only became a problem when the country was bounced into Maastricht, then into Lisbon without the people being consulted.

That, right there, was the reason for the whole Brexit campaign and the leave vote. Everything else was secondary.

Until the remainers/rejoiners understand that, the argument simply can not progress.
 
But those treaties are nothing to do with WTO rules versus the single market.
 
Why is everyone ignoring the HGV driver pan European article
Doesn't fit the narrative Bbb.
Out of interest, if WTO rules are so great, why aren't others in mad rush to use them?
They are not, nobody suggests that they are.

But they are a baseline set of rules, administered by an independent third party that can be used as a starting point to negotiate better arrangements to the benefit of all parties. They can also be used as a fallback should negotiations stall.
 
Doesn't fit the narrative Bbb.

They are not, nobody suggests that they are.

But they are a baseline set of rules, administered by an independent third party that can be used as a starting point to negotiate better arrangements to the benefit of all parties. They can also be used as a fallback should negotiations stall.
Which is why noone does as they are crap.
 
But those treaties are nothing to do with WTO rules versus the single market.
No they are not, you are correct. They are Treaties to destroy the independence of the people of this country and the sovereignty of the british parliament.
Which is why noone does as they are crap.
Possibly but as usual for a remainer you miss the point. Independence and sovereignty first, trade second.

For Brexiteers that is what it is all about, self determination, not trade or money.
 
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