S
SardiniaFox
Guest
McCarthy?
Poor Donny
- Thread starter Club_B00k_Crutchless
- Start date
AFCDorset
Roofer
Interesting comparison.
Though it supposedly targeted people who supported a foreign power that was locked in a 'Cold War' with the USA, it was remarkable how many US citizens bought into the idea in a very enthusiastic and often excessive manner.
Bare in mind that there was a genuine fear of war with the Soviets at that time and the influence of what Eisenhower was to christen the 'Military Industrial Complex' was beginning to bite.
Most of my reading of 20th century history has centred on Europe, I should try some post war US history as well.
F
Foxgolfer
Guest
Try ‘Vietnam’ by Max Hastings . Fascinating insight into USA foreign policy in 1950s and 60s
AFCDorset
Roofer
Read it a year or so ago, found it a bit repetitive and did not really tell me anything I did not already know.
I am now reading about the effect the war had on US domestic political and social policy mostly from the 70s onwards.
What/who are you reading AFC? Not directly or exclusively germane to your chosen focus but I have enjoyed Rick Perlstein's work.
Edited to add that I think most people would find Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics to be pretty much on the money even 60 years or so since publication.
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If you can get hold of it, Richard Rovere's book on McCarthy is excellent and I would argue has stood the test of time despite being both short and published not very long after McCarthy's death. One of the points that comes out is that there were clearly people in senior and sensiitve positions, who had Communist membership or sympathies, but that McCarthy's approach actually made it harder to identify and deal with them. There is also the suggestion that he and his team ignored 'leads' and as a result some people went undetected, because they were only ever really about the grandstanding rather then genuinely concerned and engaged.
jackieguaccamo
Flat Earther
Pence got the funeral envelope, Big D knew about Pence.
Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
I was just thinking we need a bit of weird conspiracy shit in this conversation.
AFCDorset
Roofer
Still getting into this, it is an interest that really has only emerged in the last 6 or 8 months with the conflict between populism and the left in the US.
I started off coming at it from two different perspectives, the whole Korea/Vietnam/Republic of China south east Asia foreign policy and domestic US politics of largely left wing activism from the 60s onwards. It is a massive sprawling subject and with the libraries still closed, a lot of my reading is web based.
I an also a bit of a gadfly, not very disciplined and into all sorts of different stuff. Knowing that my farther flew with Bomber Command mrs AFC bought me John Nichols book 'Lancaster', which I am trying to read now. I say trying as it is very harrowing, finding out what was behind some of the conversations I half heard as a child in the 50s is frightening.
Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
Off topic - I find some of the wartime stuff fascinating. Having sat inside some of those planes from WWII in museums I can't imagine how they must have felt going up in those things to fight. Many of them so young as well. We do owe them so much.
Running Fox
Roofer
Well if you are correct then Trump will be found Guilty? So let the senate decide who is correct? I know you believe in the honesty of the process, I do not but will go along in this instance. Do you agree?
F
Foxgolfer
Guest
No he won’t be found guilty . Partly of course because many the GOP have reported death threats to their families should they. it’s to convict. As always self interest will trump ( ha ha ) integrity. History will judge more harshly .
I have no doubt he would have been rightly convicted in a secret vote .
The GOP will have to decide in next couple of years whether to folllow the Trump path of , lies, conspiracy theories , divisiveness and isolationist politicies or return to cibvilsation
I’m not optimistic
I think getting actual books is better than than a lot of web content as you can make a better assessment of the level of scholarship. Plenty of stuff published as e-books, and of course Amazon (and the delightful Abebooks) also offer plenty from the second-hand market. You might also still be able to access the libraries - in York they are offering appointments and I think a click and collect service for 'vulnerable' people - whatever that means.
I've been listening to the We Have Ways podcast (Al Murray and James Holland) which covers multiple aspects of the second world war in a very accessible way (it does sound a bit like 2 middle aged guys a few pints in, which is probably exactly what it is, and is probably ideally suited to much of the Bentleys demographic).
kendalfox
Roofer
When I was a little boy my next door neighbour was a fighter pilot told me some hair raising stories about his flying, he flew both Hurricanes and Spitfires sadly was shot down and killed in the channel only 21 years old
I think lots of the fighter pilots would have been similar ages, and at the height of the Battle of Britain were going in with only a few hours training on their new planes.
Running Fox
Roofer
Brave lads we owe a lot too.
From The New York Times:
Trump's 5 Hours at the White House on Jan. 6: What We Know So Far
Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Martin
Sun, 14 February 2021, 4:07 pm·8-min read
The impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump largely focused on his actions leading up to the violent attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6. But there was a crucial period that day of nearly five hours — between the end of Trump’s speech at the Ellipse urging his supporters to march to the Capitol and a final tweet telling his followers to remember the day forever — that remains critical to his state of mind.
Evidence emerged during the trial about what Trump was doing during those hours, including new details about two phone calls with lawmakers that prosecutors said clearly alerted the president to the mayhem on Capitol Hill. Prosecutors said the new information was clear proof of Trump’s intent to incite the mob and of his dereliction to stop the violence, even when he knew that the life of Vice President Mike Pence was in danger.
Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader who on Saturday voted to acquit Trump but offered a sweeping endorsement of the prosecutors’ case, backed them up: “There’s no question — none — that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it.”
Still, many crucial questions remain unanswered about the president’s actions and mood from roughly 1 to 6 p.m. Jan. 6. Here is what is known so far:
Trump concluded his incendiary speech on the Ellipse at 1:11 p.m. He had repeatedly told the crowd that the election was stolen from him and urged his supporters to march to the Capitol in a last-ditch effort to stop President-elect Joe Biden’s victory from being certified. Trump said twice that he would go with them. And days before the march, he had told advisers that he wanted to join his supporters, but aides told him that people in the crowd were armed and that the Secret Service would not be able to protect him.
Six minutes later, Trump’s motorcade began heading back to the White House. He arrived there at 1:19 p.m. as the crowd was making its way up Pennsylvania Avenue and beginning to swarm around the Capitol. Television news footage showed the mob as it moved closer to the doors.
At some point, Trump went to the Oval Office and watched news coverage of a situation that was growing increasingly tense.
At 1:34 p.m., Mayor Muriel Bowser of Washington made a formal request for assistance in a phone call with the Army secretary, Ryan McCarthy.
At 1:49 p.m., as the Capitol Police asked Pentagon officials for help from the National Guard, Trump tweeted a video of his incendiary rally speech.
It was around this time that some of Trump’s allies publicly called on him to do something. Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, told ABC News that Trump needed to say something to stop the rioting.
At 2:12 p.m., the same moment that the mob breached the building itself, Pence — who had defied the president by saying he planned to certify Biden’s victory — was rushed off the Senate floor. A minute later, the Senate session was recessed. Two minutes after that, at 2:15 p.m., groups of rioters began to chant, “Hang Mike Pence!”
Nine minutes later, at 2:24 p.m., Trump tweeted a broadside at Pence for moving ahead to certify Biden’s win: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
At 2:26 p.m., after Pence had been whisked away, a call was placed from the White House to Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, according to call logs that the senator provided during the impeachment proceedings.
The president had made the call, but he was actually looking for Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala. Lee gave the phone to Tuberville, who has told reporters that he informed Trump that Pence had just been escorted out as the mob got closer to the Senate chamber.
“I said, ‘Mr. President, they just took the vice president out, I’ve got to go,’” Tuberville recounted to Politico.
This was a significant new piece of information. House prosecutors used it to argue that Trump was clearly aware that the vice president was in danger and that he had a callous disregard for Pence’s safety. On Friday, Trump’s defense team had insisted that Trump was not aware of any peril facing Pence.
Back at the White House, advisers were trying to get Trump to do something, but he rebuffed calls to intercede, including those from people wanting to see the National Guard deployed. The president, several advisers said, was expressing pleasure that the vote to certify Biden’s win had been delayed and that people were fighting for him.
“According to public reports, he watched television happily — happily — as the chaos unfolded,” McConnell said Saturday. “He kept pressing his scheme to overturn the election. Even after it was clear to any reasonable observer that Vice President Pence was in serious danger, even as the mob carrying Trump banners was beating cops and breaching perimeters, the president sent a further tweet attacking his own vice president.”
Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a close Republican ally of the president’s, told The Washington Post that he called Ivanka Trump, Trump’s eldest daughter, to try to get her to reason with her father. Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, also called Ivanka Trump to see if she could talk to her father. A short time later, she arrived in the Oval Office, urging Trump to issue a statement.
The White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, hammered at Trump to understand that he had potential legal exposure for what was taking place.
Finally, at 2:38 p.m., Trump tweeted, “Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!”
A short time later, at 3:13 p.m., Trump added a note, “I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!”
Ivanka Trump quoted her father’s tweet when she sent out her own, telling “American Patriots” to follow the law. She quickly deleted it and replaced it when she faced blowback on Twitter for appearing to praise the rioters as “patriots.”
Around 3:30 p.m., Rep. Kevin McCarthy of California, the House Republican leader and another ally of Trump’s, told CBS News’ Norah O’Donnell that he had spoken that afternoon with Trump as the Capitol was under siege.
“I told him he needed to talk to the nation,” McCarthy said. “I told him what was happening right then.”
The call became heated, according to a Republican congresswoman, Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler of Washington state, who said that McCarthy told her that Trump had sided with the mob as the Capitol attack unfolded, suggesting he had made a choice not to stop the violence.
In a statement Friday night that was admitted into evidence in the trial Saturday, Herrera Beutler recounted that McCarthy had a shouting match with Trump during the call.
McCarthy had told Trump that his own office windows were being broken into. “Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are,” Trump said, according to a report by CNN that the congresswoman confirmed.
“Who do you think you’re talking to?” McCarthy fired back at one point, CNN reported, including an expletive.
Meanwhile, the violence continued. At 4:17 p.m., Trump posted a video on Twitter of him speaking directly to the camera in the Rose Garden.
“I know your pain,” Trump said. “I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us, it was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now.”
He added, “We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt.”
The violence continued. Well before the Capitol Police announced at 8 p.m. that the building had been secured, Trump put out a final tweet at 6:01 p.m.: “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”
Trump's 5 Hours at the White House on Jan. 6: What We Know So Far
Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Martin
Sun, 14 February 2021, 4:07 pm·8-min read
The impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump largely focused on his actions leading up to the violent attack on the Capitol on Jan. 6. But there was a crucial period that day of nearly five hours — between the end of Trump’s speech at the Ellipse urging his supporters to march to the Capitol and a final tweet telling his followers to remember the day forever — that remains critical to his state of mind.
Evidence emerged during the trial about what Trump was doing during those hours, including new details about two phone calls with lawmakers that prosecutors said clearly alerted the president to the mayhem on Capitol Hill. Prosecutors said the new information was clear proof of Trump’s intent to incite the mob and of his dereliction to stop the violence, even when he knew that the life of Vice President Mike Pence was in danger.
Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader who on Saturday voted to acquit Trump but offered a sweeping endorsement of the prosecutors’ case, backed them up: “There’s no question — none — that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it.”
Still, many crucial questions remain unanswered about the president’s actions and mood from roughly 1 to 6 p.m. Jan. 6. Here is what is known so far:
Trump concluded his incendiary speech on the Ellipse at 1:11 p.m. He had repeatedly told the crowd that the election was stolen from him and urged his supporters to march to the Capitol in a last-ditch effort to stop President-elect Joe Biden’s victory from being certified. Trump said twice that he would go with them. And days before the march, he had told advisers that he wanted to join his supporters, but aides told him that people in the crowd were armed and that the Secret Service would not be able to protect him.
Six minutes later, Trump’s motorcade began heading back to the White House. He arrived there at 1:19 p.m. as the crowd was making its way up Pennsylvania Avenue and beginning to swarm around the Capitol. Television news footage showed the mob as it moved closer to the doors.
At some point, Trump went to the Oval Office and watched news coverage of a situation that was growing increasingly tense.
At 1:34 p.m., Mayor Muriel Bowser of Washington made a formal request for assistance in a phone call with the Army secretary, Ryan McCarthy.
At 1:49 p.m., as the Capitol Police asked Pentagon officials for help from the National Guard, Trump tweeted a video of his incendiary rally speech.
It was around this time that some of Trump’s allies publicly called on him to do something. Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, told ABC News that Trump needed to say something to stop the rioting.
At 2:12 p.m., the same moment that the mob breached the building itself, Pence — who had defied the president by saying he planned to certify Biden’s victory — was rushed off the Senate floor. A minute later, the Senate session was recessed. Two minutes after that, at 2:15 p.m., groups of rioters began to chant, “Hang Mike Pence!”
Nine minutes later, at 2:24 p.m., Trump tweeted a broadside at Pence for moving ahead to certify Biden’s win: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
At 2:26 p.m., after Pence had been whisked away, a call was placed from the White House to Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, according to call logs that the senator provided during the impeachment proceedings.
The president had made the call, but he was actually looking for Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala. Lee gave the phone to Tuberville, who has told reporters that he informed Trump that Pence had just been escorted out as the mob got closer to the Senate chamber.
“I said, ‘Mr. President, they just took the vice president out, I’ve got to go,’” Tuberville recounted to Politico.
This was a significant new piece of information. House prosecutors used it to argue that Trump was clearly aware that the vice president was in danger and that he had a callous disregard for Pence’s safety. On Friday, Trump’s defense team had insisted that Trump was not aware of any peril facing Pence.
Back at the White House, advisers were trying to get Trump to do something, but he rebuffed calls to intercede, including those from people wanting to see the National Guard deployed. The president, several advisers said, was expressing pleasure that the vote to certify Biden’s win had been delayed and that people were fighting for him.
“According to public reports, he watched television happily — happily — as the chaos unfolded,” McConnell said Saturday. “He kept pressing his scheme to overturn the election. Even after it was clear to any reasonable observer that Vice President Pence was in serious danger, even as the mob carrying Trump banners was beating cops and breaching perimeters, the president sent a further tweet attacking his own vice president.”
Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a close Republican ally of the president’s, told The Washington Post that he called Ivanka Trump, Trump’s eldest daughter, to try to get her to reason with her father. Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, also called Ivanka Trump to see if she could talk to her father. A short time later, she arrived in the Oval Office, urging Trump to issue a statement.
The White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, hammered at Trump to understand that he had potential legal exposure for what was taking place.
Finally, at 2:38 p.m., Trump tweeted, “Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!”
A short time later, at 3:13 p.m., Trump added a note, “I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!”
Ivanka Trump quoted her father’s tweet when she sent out her own, telling “American Patriots” to follow the law. She quickly deleted it and replaced it when she faced blowback on Twitter for appearing to praise the rioters as “patriots.”
Around 3:30 p.m., Rep. Kevin McCarthy of California, the House Republican leader and another ally of Trump’s, told CBS News’ Norah O’Donnell that he had spoken that afternoon with Trump as the Capitol was under siege.
“I told him he needed to talk to the nation,” McCarthy said. “I told him what was happening right then.”
The call became heated, according to a Republican congresswoman, Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler of Washington state, who said that McCarthy told her that Trump had sided with the mob as the Capitol attack unfolded, suggesting he had made a choice not to stop the violence.
In a statement Friday night that was admitted into evidence in the trial Saturday, Herrera Beutler recounted that McCarthy had a shouting match with Trump during the call.
McCarthy had told Trump that his own office windows were being broken into. “Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are,” Trump said, according to a report by CNN that the congresswoman confirmed.
“Who do you think you’re talking to?” McCarthy fired back at one point, CNN reported, including an expletive.
Meanwhile, the violence continued. At 4:17 p.m., Trump posted a video on Twitter of him speaking directly to the camera in the Rose Garden.
“I know your pain,” Trump said. “I know you’re hurt. We had an election that was stolen from us, it was a landslide election, and everyone knows it, especially the other side. But you have to go home now.”
He added, “We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don’t want anybody hurt.”
The violence continued. Well before the Capitol Police announced at 8 p.m. that the building had been secured, Trump put out a final tweet at 6:01 p.m.: “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”
Club_B00k_Crutchless
Registered
Unfortunately it's all pretty academic now seeing as the impeachment got chucked out. It's all very well for McConnell saying that now but why not back up your convictions with the correct vote in the impeachment?
kendalfox
Roofer
Joined the Air Force at 18 ground crew whilst training to be a pilot had 6 weeks
To learn to fly, navigate, and weaponry training must have had a hell of a jump from light training aircraft to fighter planes
AFCDorset
Roofer
That is an astonishingly short training time. Bomber Command, whose practices I am more familiar with, took 9 - 12 months to train a bomber pilot.
Bomber Command's attrition rate was much higher too, the Nuremberg raid in 1944 cost the lives of more aircrew than the entire four months of the Battle of Britain.
borebage53
Knife & Fork pending
The remarkable story of 13 year old Hazel Hill,wartime daughter of Frederick Hill an Air Ministry bigwig who knew that the Spitfire needed to somehow double the number of machine guns in it's thinner wings to be anything like effective in it's armament. Hazel was a schoolgirl mathematical genius who worked out for her father how to achieve this. Much easier to effect on the more robust Hurricane. But the Spitfire was much more difficult to work out.
Hazel's calculations were instrumental in doubling the number of Browning .303 machine guns on a Spitfire from four to eight.Four in each wing.
These newer Spitfire's were approved by the RAF and produced in sufficient numbers just in time to tip the balance of the Battle of Britain in the RAF's favour.
Each gun was armed with 1200 .303 shells to produce a maximum burst of 18 seconds. The wonderful Battle of Britain RAF fighter pilots had to close from behind, and slightly lower, to just 250 yards on a German bomber,to get it in the Spitfire's sights and squeeze off a 2 second burst to bring them down in flames!
It really was that much of a bloody close run thing to win the Battle of Britain in the skies over England!
Hazel's calculations were instrumental in doubling the number of Browning .303 machine guns on a Spitfire from four to eight.Four in each wing.
These newer Spitfire's were approved by the RAF and produced in sufficient numbers just in time to tip the balance of the Battle of Britain in the RAF's favour.
Each gun was armed with 1200 .303 shells to produce a maximum burst of 18 seconds. The wonderful Battle of Britain RAF fighter pilots had to close from behind, and slightly lower, to just 250 yards on a German bomber,to get it in the Spitfire's sights and squeeze off a 2 second burst to bring them down in flames!
It really was that much of a bloody close run thing to win the Battle of Britain in the skies over England!
AFCDorset
Roofer
It is a very complex story, the myths intertwine with the reality.
The 8 gun Spitfire was a late-is development (1938) but the even more important Rotol propeller was not fitted until a year later. The aircraft that fought in the Battle of Britain were of this type, each gun had 350 rounds, about 8 seconds of continuous firing.
Bringing down a Luftwaffe bomber with what was essentially rifle ammunition was not easy, the De Witt bullet had incendiary properties but even so multiple hits were required to do damage. Cannon armed Spitfires were tried but the cannon were unreliable and they were not popular with the pilots.
The Emil, the BF109-E3, was at least a match for the Spitfire but was limited in range, about 20 minutes over Kent which was where most of the battle took place. Fortunately, although the Luftwaffe had drop tanks available, the E3 did not have the necessary plumping. The E7 that started to appear in October did, but by then it was too late.
The number of pilots involved in the battle was relatively small, perhaps around 1500 on the British side, 449 were killed during the 4 months of the battle, a pretty high rate.
The 8 gun Spitfire was a late-is development (1938) but the even more important Rotol propeller was not fitted until a year later. The aircraft that fought in the Battle of Britain were of this type, each gun had 350 rounds, about 8 seconds of continuous firing.
Bringing down a Luftwaffe bomber with what was essentially rifle ammunition was not easy, the De Witt bullet had incendiary properties but even so multiple hits were required to do damage. Cannon armed Spitfires were tried but the cannon were unreliable and they were not popular with the pilots.
The Emil, the BF109-E3, was at least a match for the Spitfire but was limited in range, about 20 minutes over Kent which was where most of the battle took place. Fortunately, although the Luftwaffe had drop tanks available, the E3 did not have the necessary plumping. The E7 that started to appear in October did, but by then it was too late.
The number of pilots involved in the battle was relatively small, perhaps around 1500 on the British side, 449 were killed during the 4 months of the battle, a pretty high rate.
borebage53
Knife & Fork pending
I live only 5 minutes walk from a stone memorial and plaque (Featherstone Drive,Burbage)to commemorate the 6 Airmen who perished when their Wellington Bomber crashed in the middle of the village on 14th January 1945. It came down on the playing fields in the centre of the village so it's assumed that the Canadian pilot had purposefully managed to avoid any houses.
THIS MEMORIAL IS DEDICATED TO THE SIX AIRCREW OF WELLINGTON BOMBER MF 116, 26 OTU, RAF WING, OXFORDSHIRE, WHO PERISHED WHEN THEIR AIRCRAFT CRASHED ON THIS SPOT DURING THE NIGHT OF 14TH JANUARY 1945.
"THEIR NAMES LIVETH FOR EVERMORE"
Nicholas Chobaniuk Flying Officer(pilot) Royal Canadian Air Force Age 25
Leslie George Good Sergeant(navigator) Royal Air Force Age 20
John Sidney Gunn Sergeant(air Bomber) Royal Air Force Age 22
John William McMurdo Sergeant(wireless Op/Air Gunner) Royal Canadian Air Force Age 33
Charles Dennis Parker Sergeant(Air Gunner) Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Age 19
John Thompson Sergeant(Air Gunner) Royal Air Force Age 23
The Wellington took off from RAF Wing,Oxfordshire,at 6.05 pm on a training flight and crossed the English Coast over Cromer. The object was to fly out on a course over the North Sea to a designated point plotted by the Navigator, then turn for the journey home on the same route, maintaining radio silence to simulate a night bombing raid over Germany.
At 11.40 pm Flying Officer Chobaniuk made a 'may-day' call on the return to RAF Wing due to an engine failure.RAF Nuneaton,Warwickshire,picked up the call and lit up the runway(where the MIRA motor research centre on the A5 is today). Two minutes after the distress call was received the port wing of the aircraft hit the ground in Burbage sending the bomber cartwheeling and breaking up on impact with the ground!
THIS MEMORIAL IS DEDICATED TO THE SIX AIRCREW OF WELLINGTON BOMBER MF 116, 26 OTU, RAF WING, OXFORDSHIRE, WHO PERISHED WHEN THEIR AIRCRAFT CRASHED ON THIS SPOT DURING THE NIGHT OF 14TH JANUARY 1945.
"THEIR NAMES LIVETH FOR EVERMORE"
Nicholas Chobaniuk Flying Officer(pilot) Royal Canadian Air Force Age 25
Leslie George Good Sergeant(navigator) Royal Air Force Age 20
John Sidney Gunn Sergeant(air Bomber) Royal Air Force Age 22
John William McMurdo Sergeant(wireless Op/Air Gunner) Royal Canadian Air Force Age 33
Charles Dennis Parker Sergeant(Air Gunner) Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve Age 19
John Thompson Sergeant(Air Gunner) Royal Air Force Age 23
The Wellington took off from RAF Wing,Oxfordshire,at 6.05 pm on a training flight and crossed the English Coast over Cromer. The object was to fly out on a course over the North Sea to a designated point plotted by the Navigator, then turn for the journey home on the same route, maintaining radio silence to simulate a night bombing raid over Germany.
At 11.40 pm Flying Officer Chobaniuk made a 'may-day' call on the return to RAF Wing due to an engine failure.RAF Nuneaton,Warwickshire,picked up the call and lit up the runway(where the MIRA motor research centre on the A5 is today). Two minutes after the distress call was received the port wing of the aircraft hit the ground in Burbage sending the bomber cartwheeling and breaking up on impact with the ground!
borebage53
Knife & Fork pending
There is also a memorial in the village of Nailstone to the 12 crew members of a B17 Flying Fortress who were killed when their aircraft crashed near the village.
B17G Flying Fortress 43-37776 "Heavenly Body" was on a training flight from it's base in Eye,Suffolk,bound for Liverpool. Fully loaded with bombs and ammunition it got into difficulties and was trying to turn for Desford Aerodrome over Barlestone before it crashed landed,hitting a tree and exploding near Nailstone,on September 27th 1944.It is thought pilot Lieutenant Michael Primus managed to avoid the village. Eye witnesses in the village said it passed over with flames visible through a large hole in the side of the aircraft!
B17G Flying Fortress 43-37776 "Heavenly Body" was on a training flight from it's base in Eye,Suffolk,bound for Liverpool. Fully loaded with bombs and ammunition it got into difficulties and was trying to turn for Desford Aerodrome over Barlestone before it crashed landed,hitting a tree and exploding near Nailstone,on September 27th 1944.It is thought pilot Lieutenant Michael Primus managed to avoid the village. Eye witnesses in the village said it passed over with flames visible through a large hole in the side of the aircraft!
AFCDorset
Roofer
The bomber forces, both British and US, suffered the bulk of the casualties during the air war in Western Europe.
Bomber Command lost a staggering 55000 deaths out of 125000 (approx) aircrew who flew operationally, just 40% of those that flew survived the war unscathed. The men who made up the crews were, unlike the fighter pilots, predominantly working class enlisted men like my father a flight engineer, he earned about £5 a week, including flight pay, a fairly decent amount in those days.
Bomber Command lost a staggering 55000 deaths out of 125000 (approx) aircrew who flew operationally, just 40% of those that flew survived the war unscathed. The men who made up the crews were, unlike the fighter pilots, predominantly working class enlisted men like my father a flight engineer, he earned about £5 a week, including flight pay, a fairly decent amount in those days.
MrTeabreak
Registered
Have you watched the documentary "Why We Fight". Very good explanation on post-war but mainly post- eisenhower american foreign policy.