Poor Donny

I expect Max Hastings, (a tory like you) and other experts,authors etc are not as knowledgeable as you? The McCarthy witch hunts and the USAs colonisation of South America are not important are they?
Perhaps we should call you ZEN instead.
 
I expect Max Hastings, (a tory like you) and other experts,authors etc are not as knowledgeable as you? The McCarthy witch hunts and the USAs colonisation of South America are not important are they?
Perhaps we should call you ZEN instead.
Max Hastings used to be worthwhile but has turned into a shill, regurgitating globalist propaganda. I have several of his books, as a Historian he is well organised, but as an analyst has little grasp of context regarding time and place. That said 'Catastrophe' is very good, probably the last book of his that I read.

The American 'empire' is a huge subject in itself, multi-generational and run, by and large by the US 'Deep State'. it is not a subject I know anything about.

Oh, and I am not a tory, certainly not in any modern 21st century context. I consider the governments since 2010 to be continuity 'New Labour'.
 
Max Hastings used to be worthwhile but has turned into a shill, regurgitating globalist propaganda. I have several of his books, as a Historian he is well organised, but as an analyst has little grasp of context regarding time and place. That said 'Catastrophe' is very good, probably the last book of his that I read.

The American 'empire' is a huge subject in itself, multi-generational and run, by and large by the US 'Deep State'. it is not a subject I know anything about.

Oh, and I am not a tory, certainly not in any modern 21st century context. I consider the governments since 2010 to be continuity 'New Labour'.
For a git he expressed a sound opinion on Johnson, who really cannot be described as New Labour.
 
For a git he expressed a sound opinion on Johnson, who really cannot be described as New Labour.
Morning SF. Late start this morning, dark and dank down here but Mrs AFC is making tea. Wave if you want a cup.

Rather like 'New Labour', the current tory party is a mix of social democrats, neo-liberals, greens with a few hard left marxists on the labour side and a similar number of old school conservatives on the other.

The 'core' of both parties are remarkably similar, both authoritarian 'do what I say, not what I do' hypocrites, tax and spend globalists who use 'socialist friendly' rhetoric to placate the masses, cheeks of the same arse.

Sure there are some differences but deep down, pretty much the same. Have the tories done anything to roll back the policies of Blair and Brown, not really, a few tax breaks for their mates but that is about it.
 
And a few contracts they gave their mates. This is one of the most right-wing neo fascist tory parties since Thatcher especially with that obnoxious "Covid Recovery group" of 60 odd selfish who think money is more important than lives.Even Dominic Raab has told them to do one.
Congratulations on voting for a calamitous government whose cock-ups and poor decisions have allowed over 100,000 including staff people to die a lot unnecessarily hope you have a clear conscience.
 
Sadly the current man festation of the Tory party is basically UKIP , gradually sacrificing everything good about our country on the altar of bigotry and a misplaced nostalgia for a Britain that never existed
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And a few contracts they gave their mates. This is one of the most right-wing neo fascist tory parties since Thatcher especially with that obnoxious "Covid Recovery group" of 60 odd selfish who think money is more important than lives.Even Dominic Raab has told them to do one.
Congratulations on voting for a calamitous government whose cock-ups and poor decisions have allowed over 100,000 including staff people to die a lot unnecessarily hope you have a clear conscience.
Right-wing Neo fascist, really, they are as soft as shit (parden my language).

More deflection and words that are not remotely connected to reality. The current Tories are undoubtably corrupt, greedy and inept but any fascism in modern day British politics comes from the hard left. Political intimidation from the likes of Momentun, Antifa is more reminiscent of real stormtrooper's behaviour than anything connected to the Tories.

But that is ok, I am getting use to the language of the left and can see right through it.
 
Right-wing Neo fascist, really, they are as soft as shit (parden my language).

More deflection and words that are not remotely connected to reality. The current Tories are undoubtably corrupt, greedy and inept but any fascism in modern day British politics comes from the hard left. Political intimidation from the likes of Momentun, Antifa is more reminiscent of real stormtrooper's behaviour than anything connected to the Tories.

But that is ok, I am getting use to the language of the left and can see right through it.
Err stormtroopers were an armed militia does that ring any bells?
 
Right-wing Neo fascist, really, they are as soft as shit (parden my language).

More deflection and words that are not remotely connected to reality. The current Tories are undoubtably corrupt, greedy and inept but any fascism in modern day British politics comes from the hard left. Political intimidation from the likes of Momentun, Antifa is more reminiscent of real stormtrooper's behaviour than anything connected to the Tories.

But that is ok, I am getting use to the language of the left and can see right through it.
I don’t get this antipathy to Antifa . If you’re not anti - Fascist what does that say about your values ?
 
Err stormtroopers were an armed militia does that ring any bells?
Morning Harwich.

As always, language is a bit difficult in these areas. The Sturmabteilung were never more than a rather nasty band of uniformed street fighters, they were not issued with arms though this did not stop them from arming themselves with improvised weapons and fire bombs.

Rather like Momentum the SA were a creature of the party, not the state so were ideal for the rather nasty jobs that the state or party leadership wanted done but did not want to be seen doing themselves. Once in total control the SA was no longer needed, it was disbanded, with extreme prejudice in June/July 1934. After this 'Stormtrooper' took on a more military context, pretty much reverting to it's original World War 1 meaning.

Current government policy over covid is extremely authoritarian and dictatorial, that is without doubt but I can't describe it as 'fascist' or even 'Neo-fascist', that really does not sit right with me.

I don’t get this antipathy to Antifa . If you’re not anti - Fascist what does that say about your values ?
In order to be genuinely anti-facist, first work out who the real fascists are.
 
Morning Harwich.

As always, language is a bit difficult in these areas. The Sturmabteilung were never more than a rather nasty band of uniformed street fighters, they were not issued with arms though this did not stop them from arming themselves with improvised weapons and fire bombs.

Rather like Momentum the SA were a creature of the party, not the state so were ideal for the rather nasty jobs that the state or party leadership wanted done but did not want to be seen doing themselves. Once in total control the SA was no longer needed, it was disbanded, with extreme prejudice in June/July 1934. After this 'Stormtrooper' took on a more military context, pretty much reverting to it's original World War 1 meaning.

Current government policy over covid is extremely authoritarian and dictatorial, that is without doubt but I can't describe it as 'fascist' or even 'Neo-fascist', that really does not sit right with me.


In order to be genuinely anti-facist, first work out who the real fascists are.
Or ignore them and call them marxists instead?
 
Being anti-fascist is a good thing.

The Antifa movement in the United States is a bit of an annoying joke. But the right-wingers and liars will have you believe all sorts of things about them.

The more violent splinter groups are just as bad as their fascist counterparts.
 
Morning Harwich.

As always, language is a bit difficult in these areas. The Sturmabteilung were never more than a rather nasty band of uniformed street fighters, they were not issued with arms though this did not stop them from arming themselves with improvised weapons and fire bombs.

Rather like Momentum the SA were a creature of the party, not the state so were ideal for the rather nasty jobs that the state or party leadership wanted done but did not want to be seen doing themselves. Once in total control the SA was no longer needed, it was disbanded, with extreme prejudice in June/July 1934. After this 'Stormtrooper' took on a more military context, pretty much reverting to it's original World War 1 meaning.

Current government policy over covid is extremely authoritarian and dictatorial, that is without doubt but I can't describe it as 'fascist' or even 'Neo-fascist', that really does not sit right with me.


In order to be genuinely anti-facist, first work out who the real fascists are.
I think we saw them fairly clearly on January 6th , urging the “brown shirted” useful idiots on the Capitol.
 
Being anti-fascist is a good thing.

The Antifa movement in the United States is a bit of an annoying joke. But the right-wingers and liars will have you believe all sorts of things about them.

The more violent splinter groups are just as bad as their fascist counterparts.
I agree with that . We are fast reaching a narrative encouraged by some members of the current cabinet that anyone who thinks minorities deserve respect are portrayed as violent thugs or the “ loony left “
 
I agree with that . We are fast reaching a narrative encouraged by some members of the current cabinet that anyone who thinks minorities deserve respect are portrayed as violent thugs or the “ loony left “
Or anyone doing anything remotely thoughtful , or representing anyone that doesn't have the knowledge or financial capacity to defend themselves as "do-gooders".
 
Or anyone doing anything remotely thoughtful , or representing anyone that doesn't have the knowledge or financial capacity to defend themselves as "do-gooders".
I think the moment doing good became a term of abuse was a sad one .
 
Or ignore them and call them marxists instead?
I know... (blush).

I have, of late, been trying to avoid name calling but sometimes it is difficult, but then defining every word that you use in a post just gets really silly.

Being anti-fascist is a good thing.

The Antifa movement in the United States is a bit of an annoying joke. But the right-wingers and liars will have you believe all sorts of things about them.

The more violent splinter groups are just as bad as their fascist counterparts.
I do find Antifa, the UK version, to be an answer to a problem we really do not have. It is normal for those on the authoritarian left to call anyone who does not agree with them 'fascists', which for me destroys any possible justification for Antifa.

At the real world level they are just another rather nasty group of thugs, organisationally they are marxist inspired anti-capitalists group (sorry for the use of the m-word), simple as that.
 
I know... (blush).

I have, of late, been trying to avoid name calling but sometimes it is difficult, but then defining every word that you use in a post just gets really silly.


I do find Antifa, the UK version, to be an answer to a problem we really do not have. It is normal for those on the authoritarian left to call anyone who does not agree with them 'fascists', which for me destroys any possible justification for Antifa.

At the real world level they are just another rather nasty group of thugs, organisationally they are marxist inspired anti-capitalists group (sorry for the use of the m-word), simple as that.
We don’t have an extreme right wing problem in this country????
Time you started reading and watching MSM again.
Second biggest rise in terrorist plots is by the extreme right.
 
I know... (blush).

I have, of late, been trying to avoid name calling but sometimes it is difficult, but then defining every word that you use in a post just gets really silly.


I do find Antifa, the UK version, to be an answer to a problem we really do not have. It is normal for those on the authoritarian left to call anyone who does not agree with them 'fascists', which for me destroys any possible justification for Antifa.

At the real world level they are just another rather nasty group of thugs, organisationally they are marxist inspired anti-capitalists group (sorry for the use of the m-word), simple as that.
In the main, it's got bugger-all to do with anyone they just disagree with being called a fascist - if they talk like a fascist, act like a fascist - it's only right to call them fascist.

I feel sorry for anyone that gets annoyed with being labelled as such, hiding behind weak arguments such as "It's an overused phrase, it doesn't mean anything any more", usually ending it with the old chestnut "I've got (black / Muslim / whichever group) friends y'know".

Who are these "authoritarian left" anyway?
 
Our current government may not be Fascist in the accepted sense , but there are some very dark forces who describe themselves as “right wing think tanks” - who have a strong influence in the thinking of our current shower .
Raab , Truss and Patel co - wrote a book in 2012 contained an attack on British working folks who they described as the “laziest in the world”.
Mogg’s family views about the inferiority of the working classes are well documented and Cummings went so far as to express a view on the poor as genetically inferior .
The genius of these creatures is they persuaded the people they despise so vehemently to vote for them .
We are in for a rough ride until the country comes to its senses .
 
We don’t have an extreme right wing problem in this country????
Time you started reading and watching MSM again.
Second biggest rise in terrorist plots is by the extreme right.
Why do you believe in this right wing threat nonsense? When did the right carry out a terrorist attack in this country? How about a murder? Maybe some rioting and looting? Smash up a few statues even?

You need to stop reading and watching the MSN, believe what you see, not what you are told.
In the main, it's got bugger-all to do with anyone they just disagree with being called a fascist - if they talk like a fascist, act like a fascist - it's only right to call them fascist.

I feel sorry for anyone that gets annoyed with being labelled as such, hiding behind weak arguments such as "It's an overused phrase, it doesn't mean anything any more", usually ending it with the old chestnut "I've got (black / Muslim / whichever group) friends y'know".

Who are these "authoritarian left" anyway?
Morning MM, sorry to go on but unless you define what 'fascist' means your statement is meaningless. Right now I think a 'Fascist' is defined as anyone who has political views that are not approved of by the far left.

The modern version of the Overton Window does not just go from left to right, it goes up and down too. Move the window higher for authoritarian policy, lower for more freedom.

Left wing politics in the UK occupies the space towards the top left hand corner, hence 'authoritarian left'. Easily recognised by their use of political and physical intimidation, destruction of free speech, no platforming and cancel culture.
 
Why do you believe in this right wing threat nonsense? When did the right carry out a terrorist attack in this country? How about a murder? Maybe some rioting and looting? Smash up a few statues even?

You need to stop reading and watching the MSN, believe what you see, not what you are told.

Morning MM, sorry to go on but unless you define what 'fascist' means your statement is meaningless. Right now I think a 'Fascist' is defined as anyone who has political views that are not approved of by the far left.

The modern version of the Overton Window does not just go from left to right, it goes up and down too. Move the window higher for authoritarian policy, lower for more freedom.

Left wing politics in the UK occupies the space towards the top left hand corner, hence 'authoritarian left'. Easily recognised by their use of political and physical intimidation, destruction of free speech, no platforming and cancel culture.
I asked on here a couple of weeks ago where all the Brexit anger will be directed by the Daily Hate and people like Farage. Looks like the new anti-woke campaign will be it, along with the free speech BS.

It's the new divide and rule. Turn the people on themselves whilst continuing to trouser billions of our money.

Do people really think it's a bad thing to be against social injustice?

Interesting read
 
I asked on here a couple of weeks ago where all the Brexit anger will be directed by the Daily Hate and people like Farage. Looks like the new anti-woke campaign will be it, along with the free speech BS.

It's the new divide and rule. Turn the people on themselves whilst continuing to trouser billions of our money.

Do people really think it's a bad thing to be against social injustice?

Interesting read
Personally I see a huge difference in general disagreement on an idea and and policy, even when quite vehement, and the kind of specific, personal attacks carried out by 'the left'.

I am a great believer in social justice, what have I ever said that would suggest otherwise? What I have no time for is intersectionality, cancel culture, gender manipulation, third (or is it now fourth) wave feminism, equality of outcome and the rest.

Divide and rule has been a policy tool of government forever, it is up to ordinary people to resist.
 
I asked on here a couple of weeks ago where all the Brexit anger will be directed by the Daily Hate and people like Farage. Looks like the new anti-woke campaign will be it, along with the free speech BS.

It's the new divide and rule. Turn the people on themselves whilst continuing to trouser billions of our money.

Do people really think it's a bad thing to be against social injustice?

Interesting read
Like this ridiculous free speech monitor . Apparently of approximately 10000 speakers booked at Unis in 2019 - 6 were cancelled and none for their viewpoint .
It’s so transparent .
We’ve fucked up the pandemic, fucked up Brexit but look over there .
Bloody Universities educating people .
 
Personally I see a huge difference in general disagreement on an idea and and policy, even when quite vehement, and the kind of specific, personal attacks carried out by 'the left'.

I am a great believer in social justice, what have I ever said that would suggest otherwise? What I have no time for is intersectionality, cancel culture, gender manipulation, third (or is it now fourth) wave feminism, equality of outcome and the rest.

Divide and rule has been a policy tool of government forever, it is up to ordinary people to resist.
So basically you have fallen for the BS. Moaning about people getting offended when they aren’t , while getting offended about pretty much everything the right wing shrills on SM tell you to get your knickers in a twist about .
 
No personal attacks from those on the right on here, are there?
 
Been plenty on here defending them. Agreeing with them. So I'd say, supporting them. Unless everyone is on the wind-up? I know I am...
 
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